Tax Cuts or Tax Increases?
With Florida mired in its worst revenue slump in decades, Gov. Charlie Crist has proposed a $70 billion state budget that relies heavily on reserves and gambling money to pay for services next year. Increases in local school taxes may also be required in some counties.
Click here for more details:
www.miamiherald.com/458/story/401893.html
Florida House Budget and Policy Council Chairman Ray Sansom is not a fan of much of what the Governor has proposed. Here is what Sansom had to say:
“This is going to be a very challenging budget year. With current estimates showing a $2 billion shortfall in upcoming years, the House believes that thoughtful spending reductions would best serve Florida long-term, not tax increases, accounting transfers, or a new reliance on one-time or stagnant revenue sources.
We have also committed to not borrow or bond ourselves out of this situation because we refuse to take the easy way out and pass these tough decisions onto future state leaders. And while optimistic about our state’s future, we believe that we should continue the practice of maintaining the state’s reserves, because it is fiscally prudent to be prepared in case of hurricanes or other emergencies.”
Are taxpayers about to become the victims of "political hocus pocus" and an Amendment 1 shell game to avoid serious budget cutting? Give us your thoughts.
Just a little something for us to chew on until Super Tuesday!
posted by Blog Master @ 10:38 AM
68 Comments:
Maybe we should listen to the States CFO, Alex Sink, about the Governor’s budget.
She says Crist’s proposal to take money from the workers’ compensation trust fund amounts to a “tax increase” on businesses. A trust fund sweep of the magnitude Crist is recommending will require the state to raise Workers’ Compensation assessments—taxes—on Florida businesses as early as January 2009.
It is a good thing that Florians Have Budget Chairman Samson who questions Governor Christ's budget plan which ignores a thorough look at the budget for pragmatic cutting.
It is odd that the goenor has taken this tack, given that he said that local governments should get serious on their budget cutting.
The suggestion that there might be property taxes ahead renders Proposition 1 meaningless, a real sham.
There has to be some real skeletins buried in the 70 billion budget that need to be exposed.
I am reminded, that while hunting alone in a state park, that didn't see much use,in southern Ohio, I found hundreds of new unmarked white state vehicles hidden in the hollows in an effort to hide administration waste during an election year.
Florida has seen nine years of Republican dominance at the state house and the legislature. Of course there is going to be all sorts of fat to cut off the budget.
Bring out the knives, let the fat fall where it may.
Clayton Ellsworth
DUH!! We're in an emergency so tap into those reserve funds.
Stan---Alex Sink sounds more like a republican than our republican governor! What’s happening to you republicans?
Anyone who ever watched Crist in the legislature knew he was no conservative.
Why in the world would the Democrats run anybody against Charlie? Wouldn't that be redundant?
That's a good point. Why not use up some of the reserves? The amount there is awfully high. I'm not saying use all, but some for budget purposes. I'll leave it to the budget chiefs in Tallahassee.
If 64% of the voters were wrong in voting for Amendment 1, that would be a real tragedy. Sansom looks to be on the right budget solutions as to what people expected from government in voting for the Amendment. It could be a battle in the 2008 session of the Legislature.
I'm happy to see the Governor has kept his word about not cutting any money for education. That's what he guaranteed about Amendment 1 if it passed.
Tax Cuts or Tax Increases?
I don’t accept the question, since you are only looking at revenues. The real problem with all levels of government is on the expenditure side of the balance sheet.
Marion County Commissioners have increased local government spending by over 80% in the last four (4) years. Of course, election years have lower rates of growth 4.5% and 6.2%, but non-election years when the people are not paying attention rose by 12.6% and last year a record 50.2%.
50% increase in Spending in One Year!
2004-2005 $314,123,562
2005-2006 $353,783,333
2006-2007 $375,675,587
2007-2008 $566,585,124
The people will not hear of this record increase in spending from the Board of Marion County Commissioners, but only hear how they passed the largest reduction in the mileage rate for property taxes.
Man, what happened with the 2007 and 2008 budget? Amazing!
County Commissioner Barbara Fitos just gave County Administrator Pat Howard the best performance review of all the Commissioners—commenting on the outstanding job he does with the budget. If the figures above are correct, she sure must be smoking something pretty powerful.
Blogmaster, if Chris Curry got the evaluations can you post them here for comment? They're obviously public knowledge.
You asked, we deliver.
County Administrator Pat Howard’s evaluation:
www.ocala.com/assets/pdf/OS1100222.PDF
County Attorney Tom Wright’s evaluation:
www.ocala.com/assets/pdf/OS1100322.PDF
UPDATE: Here is some additional information, if you are interested. Governor Crist’s budget numbers may not add up.
Copy and paste this link to your browser:
www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/story/403342.html
The performance evaluation for the county administrator uses an anti-intuitive rating system in which lower numbers represent better scores than higher numbers. A low number corresponds to a high rating defined as “Exceeds Expectations.” A mid-range number corresponds to a rating defined as “Meets Expectations.” A high number corresponds to a low rating defined as “Does Not Meet Expectations.”
Ignoring category weighting issues, and just looking at the ratings total, the best possible score was 28 and the worst possible score was 140. In order of best rating to lowest rating, here are those totals by county commissioner as reported in the linked performance evaluation document:
Fitos 70
Stone 79
McClain 86
Payton 87
Average 81
Kesselring did not rate the county administrator, reportedly because Kesselring has applied for a position under the county administrator.
Transforming these ratings to a more intuitive scale of 0 to 100, with 100 being the best possible ratings total and 0 being the worst possible ratings total, results in the following overall ratings for the county administrator:
Fitos 63
Stone 54
McClain 48
Payton 47
Average 53
While the media is playing up the fact that Fitos gave Howard higher scores numerically than other county commissioners, it does not appear to me that any county commissioner gave him outstanding overall ratings. I also note that Fitos’ comments in the evaluation include the following:
“There is room for a more proactive posture especially as it relates to time sensitive issues such as EMSA - opportunity to move away from reactive & crisis management posture especially in water resource mgt and infrastructure, including roads, solid waste and utilities.”
Suggesting that the county administrator has a reactive, crisis management approach to critical issues strikes me as a huge negative comment on the performance of the county administrator.
I have not discussed the performance evaluation of the county administrator with any county commissioner.
Where I went to school in Georgia it took 70 out of 100 to pass most classes. Guess Florida has a different standard, especially for government employees.
Gun nutt says...
I know organizations including government and private businesses waste a lot of money on foolish things that they really can't afford.
I was recently made aware of an example of waste in the private sector by a friend of mine who lives in Orlando. She works for a spa and they paid to send her to a skin care convention. I'm not sure how much the convention cost to attend but part of the cost no doubt went to pay for the guest speaker. The guest speaker was none other than Maya Angelou (one of VOR's favorites).
The money paid to this guest speaker was a complete waste. It had nothing to do with skin care and was the organizational equivalent of flushing the money down the toilet. Look closely at government budgets and I'm sure you would find similar waste.
50% Increase in County Spending in One (1) Year!
Marion County Commissioners have increased local government spending by over 80% in the last four (4) years. Of course, election years have lower rates of growth 4.5% and 6.2%, but non-election years when the people are not paying attention rose by 12.6% and last year a record 50.2%.
50% increase in Spending in One Year!
2004-2005 $314,123,562
2005-2006 $353,783,333
2006-2007 $375,675,587
2007-2008 $566,585,124
Check it out for yourself, links to County budgets.
2007-2008 http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/200708AdoptedBudgetSummary.pdf
2006-2007
http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/AdoptedBudgetSummary200607.pdf
2005-2006
http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/AdoptedBudgetSummary200506.pdf
2004-2005
http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/AdoptedBudgetSummary200405.pdf
As much as I disagreed with many of Mr. Harris’s positions, at least his leadership kept the Board of County Commissioners spending down to reasonable levels. At the rate we are going, Marion County could see it’s first $1,000,000,000.00 Billion dollar budget in the next four (4) years.
Sorry, The links weren't complete.
2007-2008 http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/200708AdoptedBudgetSummary.pdf
2006-2007
http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/AdoptedBudgetSummary200607.pdf
2005-2006
http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/AdoptedBudgetSummary200506.pdf
2004-2005
http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/_files/AdoptedBudgetSummary200405.pdf
Watch the county budget get cutback before the election. It was staged that way.
By the way, I can't get your links to work. Anybody else have a problem. Keep getting message page not available.
Sorry, I can't figure out how to get the entire address on this blog. Go to:
www.marioncountyclerk.org/public
Then click on adopted budget.
Then click on budget summary.
Maybe someone can post how to place long hper-links on this blog.
Gen. Howard’s Evaluation
“There is room for a more proactive posture especially as it relates to time sensitive issues such as EMSA …opportunity to move away from reactive & crisis management posture.” Barbara Fitos.
You have got to be kidding!!!! Chairman Stone is totally responsible for the delays and incompetence on the EMSA issue. He voluntary took a leadership role as the “County Commissioner In-Charge”, and then could not even keep all parties (City of Ocala and both Hospital Systems) to the negotiation at the bargaining table; withdrawing almost $4.5 million of funding at the end of the partnership.
As to crisis management, again the Board of County Commissioners is responsible for a vision or strategic plan, not the County Administrator. His job is to implement their vision and they can’t come up with one.
His superiors at the Board of County Commissioners consistently emasculate General Howard’s authority, by breaking the chain-of-command and going directly to his subordinates. Many times ordering his subordinates to take action that is in direct conflict with their instructions to General Howard.
I am amazed that General Howard isn’t schizophrenic.
My Goodness! What a diversity of comments to respond to...
First, Brian C. I don't usually agree with many of your comments but you are dead on target of your analysis of General Howard's evaluation. If your numbers are correct and I would guess you have already picked up a copy of the evaluations of the County Adminsitrator and County Attorney, then both gentlemen are not doing very good at all! In fact both have received near failing grades! Howard's numbers would have been even lower had Kesselring evaluated him. Looks like Howard might not make it to the end of his contract and with the Star Banners comments attributed to the Commissioners on the County Attorney I'll predict he's gone before the end of the year.
Second, anonymous 5:12pm. Don't confuse the budget with just the County Commission departments. Look at the explosion in Sheriff Dean's budget and Dee Brown's. Their budget along with the state mandated construction of the $45,000,000 judical center are in there too! Fortunately this County Commission pays cash rather than bonding us all into the poor house!
Third, Gisela Salas, or anonymous 6:32pm. Don't be so bitter that you have to blame everything on Charlie Stone, just because he wisely recommended cutting your overpaid position from the County budget. I don't recall in the public budget hearings any other Commissioner coming to your rescue. They saw deadwood too! However, I understand your feeble effort to blame everything fiscally responsible on Charlie in your ultimately failed attempt to get Ray "Sickland" elected. Ray will be toast by the primary on August 26th.
As to the County budget growth someone needs to count all the County-wide MSTU's and MSBU's for police and fire too in the first three year's budget summary. The growth hasn't been what has been reported. Oh, and with the wise passage of Amendment 1, there will be no billion dollar budget in 4 years.
Name calling…..”Strickland”
You lower yourself and your candidate intellectually when you name call.
I am sure that they’re a lot of names that rhyme with Stone, but hoped that we could have a civil conversation about their upcoming candidacy.
At least use the name given him in high school “Strick-nine”.
To you two anonymous bloggers. It's a blogsite so either Sickland or Stricknine is allowable. Frankly, a little play on names adds amusement to otherwise serious discussions. I didn't know blogsites had real rules with the exceptions of all that ?#$!@X% language!
I wrote above: “While the media is playing up the fact that Fitos gave Howard higher scores numerically than other county commissioners,…”
To clarify, since in the evaluation system (before I transformed the numbers to a different scale) lower numbers are better, I should have written, “While the media is playing up the fact that Fitos gave Howard BETTER scores than other county commissioners,…”
Name Calling…Rules
That’s fine!
I didn’t know the rules of the game.
Upcoming postings will have derogatory name-calling.
Just to keep the playing field even.
MSTU & MSBU – Off Balance Sheet
You are not seriously considering that MSTUs and MSBUs are off balance sheet items and don’t count as spending in the County budget, are you?
As to the Judicial Center, why should the current generation pay for something that several generations will use without payment? Bonding on some long- term infrastructure projects that have usage by future generations should be partially paid for by future generations.
Controlled borrowing is not bad; all growing concerns borrow to keep up with customer service demands.
If I remember correctly Chairman Stone was on the wrong side of the Judicial Center expansion issue, and wanted to build in unrealistic alternative locations, reducing efficiencies. Again, lacking leadership and vision he had to be converted to make the right decision.
I couldn’t do it!
I still respect the position, so it will be Chairman Stone.
Gisela Salas, or anonymous 6:32pm
It’s not Gisela!
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t the Board of County Commissioners looking at hiring another person at a high salary to replace her?
So what’s the big deal?
One ineffective person replaced with another. Why are you so bitter with her?
Wow! It is getting interesting. I'll have to come back later and see what you all are up to. Hadn't checked in in several days. Hit it just the right time.
P.S.: Why would someone phony up the budget figures to make the BCC look bad? Sounds like campaign high jinx to me. Better yet sounds like someone being dishonest. Not a good way to win friends and influence voters.
Phony Numbers?
It comes right off the Clerk of the Courts website, estimated revenues vs. appropriations.
If I am wrong tell me, what did I miss. Previously not interested in local government.
New convert to the system…. help?
If Strickland or his campaign manager are making comments on politically homeless, be cautious. I refer you to his infamous Blue-Cross letter that perpetrated a falsehood to the commission about his business relationship with B-C. I've seen the letter after PWF mentioned it a month or so ago. Will make a great discussion point on candidate integrity.
Strickland and Integrity….
This would be a great topic of discussion.
If you really want the truth to come out, keep pushing the issue I am sure that the general public would be greatly interested in the relationship between the current vendor of health insurance and the risk management department.
Post the letter…. then ask yourself, whom does the letter benefit?
Well heck! Don't keep us in the dark. We're all among friends here. Pray tell: who in risk management or elsewhere does the letter show to benefit?
Your guess is as good as mine.
I never saw the letter?
But, wouldn't the letter writer, write the letter with their own benefit in mind?
Ask yourself, who wrote the letter?
Thus, who stands to benefit?
Stan said…Raiding the Work Comp. Pool
What a terrible idea!
The State of Florida recently reduced the workers’ compensation rate by another 18%, that’s about a 50% reduction in the last few years. The economy is potentially experiencing a downturn, which relates to an inverse relationship with workers’ compensation. That means as the economy turns down, unemployment and workers’ compensation claims increase.
We don’t have enough money to pay the increased future claims, never mind taking monies and putting them in general revenues to pay for increased spending.
Business never pays taxes. Business passes on the increase cost to customers, or reduces profit margins or closes the doors and goes out of business.
Business creates jobs and jobs are good for everyone.
Business = More jobs
Jobs = More Home Ownership
Home Ownership = More Property Taxes
Over 70% of all property taxes come from home ownership / homesteaded properties.
The summary Brian Creekbaum did on the County Mgr. performance shows consistency in the evaluations of the four commissioners. If the bank where I work gave me such low ratings, I'd be dusting off my resume and scouting for a new bank to work at.
The ratings are good enough to let Howard and Wright keep their jobs for another year. End of that discussion!
re: 8:48PM, anonymous.
First, you automatically expect that anyone following Gisela will also be ineffective, even before he has been hired. How can you make such a statement expecially given that her postion was eliminated and this is a combined two positions in one for less money. Seems like a good move by Howard to me.
Second, no bitterness about Gisela because from what I hear she was pleasant enough she just can't point to anything she actually accomplished in two years except maybe sell some real estate while she was working for the county.
Now let me pass on some advice from my mother, "you are the company you keep." Ray should be careful. Pleasant enough just isn't enough, you have to stnd for something.
City Guy; maybe the end of discussion for you but I agree with the private sector bank employee analysis and dusting off your resume with these low evaluation scores, as Brian has related.
I can imagine the City of Ocala folks wanting to keep Howard around because they have had their way with the county with him at the helm. Unfortunately that's not what's best for the taxpayers.
The only variable in the mix for the departure for Howard and Wright is the November election.
Raiding the state workers comp fund is not the only problem. Depending on gambling revenues could also present budget complications. Sharing parts of a couple of recent posts from other Florida blogs about the governor’s budget:
It's time Charlie Crist considered some advice from Bob Graham. The former governor warned against shortsighted fixes to cope with the state's current financial mess.
"If our leaders do nothing but swing a meat ax at key priorities, they will soon fall prey to snake oil salesmen who promise “easy and painless' solutions, like casino gambling," wrote Graham, who was governor from 1979-1987.
"The second we succumb to these intoxicating promises, Florida's character will be forever altered - our future determined by the chance turn of the roulette wheel rather than the character and capabilities of our people," he wrote.
Governor Crist should be leading a much-needed effort to reform Florida's tax structure. Instead, he has decided to increase the state's addiction to gambling - despite promising not to do so in his 2006 campaign. But gambling is another story, and embracing it is a sure sign of desperation.
Wise words!
Not the first time ol Charlie Boy has lied to the people.
When it comes to public monies and expenditures, there never seems to be a good time to fast.
After all, fasting will create issues with the electorate.
Instead we will play hocus pocus economics [the Ellsworth version of voodoo economics].Now you see the pea, now you don't, which walnut shell is it under?
Borrowing from a rainy day fund like workmens comp.instead of budget cutting is like the consumer robbing a childs education fund to make ends meet rather than budget cutting [if they have a budget at all].
The state economists haven proven to be fallible, they haven't been able to accurately pinpoint revenue loss, why should any plans they give Govenor Christ be any more accurate in addressing the needs of a cash strapped state.
I am surprised that you Republican
Conservatives that don't like Crist, haven't piled on him by pointing out his budget plan is designed to inflict no pain, just keep his approval ratings up.
NO PAIN NO GAIN !!
Clayton Ellsworth
Clayton, you're right on Charlie, in fact I think everybody's to the right of Charlie Crist!
I can't believe his approval rating is still so high except everybody's a sucker for free stuff. The problem is we're all going to pay for Charlie's free stuff and his budget "smoke and mirrors."
Brian, you conducted an excellent analysis on Howard's evaluation. Could you do the same for Wright? It's disturbing that Howard's numbers are so low and it looks like Wright's are no better.
Agree, it would be good to see the attorneys ratings in the same for as the administ.
Nother subject. Why is Crist out of state trying to get McCain elected when the state is falling apart?
Because he wants to be VP real bad. I say let him go so we can get the state budget under control.
Can you imagine how much free stuff he could send Florida if he was in Washington?
Agree with city guy, neither of these guys are in trouble. they'll be around for awhile longer.
As far as the meaning of the county administrator performance ratings, I think they mean whatever the county commissioners who gave them think they mean.
Howard’s overall ratings are in the middle of what was possible. According to the ratings form, this is supposed to mean he was meeting expectations as contrasted with falling short of expectations or exceeding expectations. Is that the way the county commissioners see it? If so, is meeting expectations enough for a county administrator working for a county commission whose published mission statement is “Meeting needs by exceeding expectations?’
I once knew of a large professional services firm where to stay employed a staff member needed to get “Outstanding” or “Above Average” on performance evaluations. If they got “Satisfactory High” or “Satisfactory Low” on an evaluation it meant their employment was in trouble and if they got an “Unsatisfactory” it meant they were out the door before the ink was dry on the evaluation.
I don’t think you can apply some universal standard to a score out of 100, though. When I was attending Georgia Tech, one of my fraternity brothers was a phenomenon who came very close to going through the undergraduate electrical engineering program with a perfect grade point average, which is virtually unheard of. I’m not sure it had ever been done at that time in the 1970’s. He missed a perfect grade point average only because of a B he got in an aerobics (running) class. Then, he entered the masters program in electrical engineering at Stanford and scored in the 60’s out of 100 on his first exam and became concerned until he learned that was the second highest grade on the exam. He spent the rest of his time there competing for the top rank in the program with the guy who got the highest grade on that early exam which I think was also well short of 100.
I experienced something similar with a thermodynamics professor at Georgia Tech. Dr. Shelton, who would later design the Olympic torch for the 1996 Olympics games which he reportedly tested in his shower to make sure it stayed lit, had a reputation for giving tremendously difficult exams where the high score in the class would typically be 70 or so, or even less, out of 100.
After several city council members pushed the City Manager Paul Nugent out late last year, I requested from the city clerk copies of the city manager performance evaluations for the past two years completed by each city council member. Daniel Owen, one of the city council members who pushed Nugent out, had not turned in an evaluation for 2007, but his evaluation for the previous year had what appeared to be pretty high scores. Don’t hold me to this, but my recollection is that he had given Nugent all threes and fours on a scale of 1 to 4 where 4 was the best rating possible.
Our County Commissioners are all very demanding people. That would make a middle level rating seem pretty good to me. I think the General is doing an outstanding job in satisfying five difficult to satisfy Commissioners. He should be given a medal not debating his job security.
If Crist had any balls (whoops!) he would have every department he controls cut their budget by 10%. That would cut all that administrative clutter in Tallahassee and get rid of all those do-nothings who are doing nothing but creating useless work for local governments.
Want a good laugh? Check out State House Bill 751 which proposes a sales tax on topless bars (including services/products purchased there) and escort services. The tax receipts would go to help nursing home residents pay for things like haircuts or movie tickets. The bill is proposed by Rick Kriseman a Democrat. This will really help solve the state’s budget problems!!
George Bush and Charlie Crist seem to have the same budget problem. Both have proposed a budget and the legislators who have to give approval don’t agree with it.
10:11 PM, February 02, 2008 said
Ask yourself, who wrote the letter?
Thus, who stands to benefit?
understand bluecross wrote letter after strickland lied to commission. letter benefitted county cause it showed blue cross wasn't dealing with strickland and they were getting the best deal possible.
11:27 PM, February 04, 2008 said:
Our County Commissioners are all very demanding people. That would make a middle level rating seem pretty good to me. I think the General is doing an outstanding job in satisfying five difficult to satisfy Commissioners. He should be given a medal not debating his job security.
11:27 PM, February 04, 2008
if I also worked for the county I couldn;t have said it better, Lee.
Ouch. Pwf told me Lee doessn't read or write on this blog. So who is the obvious county employee who wrote the poost?
I know Lee pretty well and I am absolutely certain he does not write on blog sites and I doubt he reads them much either. However, I know Lee would not relate to the Commissioners as difficult to please because they haven't been for him nor would he sugar coat something that's not his business like Howard's evaluation which wasn't very good. Maybe anonymous should guess again.
Who is kidding who?
Howard and Wright both got failing evaluations. They may find it more beneficial to depart on their own. Howard doesn't need the job and Wright could certainly work somewhere else. Pat Howard won't wait to go out on a downer and Tom Wright won't want anything more negative on his record and would probably choose to leave before he is permanently damaged.
Two comments at today's House Budget meeting about the Governor's budget:
"Not good public policy," said the House budget chief, Rep. Ray Sansom, R-Destin. Sansom also essentially declared dead one of Crist's new revenue ideas, $34-million from overweight truck fines that have not been increased since 1953. "I don't think that's how we get the economy going again in Florida," Sansom said.
The panel's vice-chairman, Democratic Rep. Jack Seiler, D-Wilton Manors, described Crist's budget as a "fallacy" built on too-optimistic revenue projections. "The governor's budget has created skeptics of us all," Seiler said.
Even the Democrats are turning on the Governor!
5:59, come on abt lee's brown nosing commissioners and not doin his own blog rants. and hes had opinions on every chief including howard as long as it makes him look superior. and unless u are he how u know for sure he doesnt rant on blogs?
Sounds like you're just jealous of Lee. Is it because he gets things done and doesn't mind giving the Commisioners the credit THEY deserve?
that aint so cause hes to busy takin credit himself
...and than jealously and ignorance your point is?
The progressive way he has run the Parks department I'll give him all the credit he wants! He outlasted Harris too! For that he gets even more points.
What's with the Niblock bashing the last week by anon????
Give him credit for taking a disaster of a department and making it one of the best run in Marion County.
He was dead wrong on his drafting of the plan for taking over the Ocala Parks and Rec Dept and I quickly said so, but his development of a real park department for Marion County is a great asset to the county. I hope the county will likewise develop a good recreation program -- which we do not yet have and have long needed. AndYyes, I know the county has hired a director and maybe some other people but that does not a program make.)
I am sorry to see the possibility of the start of consolidation fail because of failure to communicate and failure to understand on the part of the "committee" that was supposed to have negoiated an agreement.
The latest county proposal of $5 million plus 3% a year to do about 60% of the work done by Ocala Parks and Rec is a deal killer as I see it, and I hope the city will reject it.
Maybe we can then start a realistic examination of the situation, perhaps with a new committee.
But other than his drafting of the original county plan, he's done us a good job, so what's with the bashing???? --pwf
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