STRAW POLL: FINAL RESULTS
The Straw Poll final results, as of this evening (91 participants):
(1) The Marion/Ocala EDC is working with county, City of Ocala and state officials to put together an economic package to keep E-One in Marion County.
Should E-One be offered taxpayer-supported economic advantages in the range of $14 million to keep it from leaving Marion County?
48% - Yes
52% - No
(2) A simple explanation of Zero-Based Budgeting is basically requiring departments to justify and prepare their budget on the basis of “what resources (financial and otherwise) would you need to operate if you were starting as a new department”.
Do you think the County Commissioners should require the Zero-Based approach for County Departments in place of the current approach of starting from a base of what did they spend last year?
86% - Yes
14% - No
Thanks for participating!
posted by Blog Master @ 7:46 PM
116 Comments:
I don't accept the poll results about E-One. All of the people I know are very supportive of the County and City helping them stay here.
You have your opinion from your friends. I have mine. We can’t believe 48% poll takers supported giving money to E-One. What are they thinking?
They are leaving folks. Get ready.
Anyone hear anything about the discussion of zero budgeting at today's Ocala Council meeting? Did it even come up?
Time for a bit of hard ball.
What do you think about this?
Dear E-1,
The offer on the table is $10M good for 1 week. After one week we will make a $12M offer to your competitor so that they may relocate their manufacturing here in Marion County. The additional $2M is for your competitor to use as incentives to keep the trained and skilled workforce here in Marion County. Sorry for the strong arm tactics but you see in the end it is all about Economic Development.
Regards,
EDC
Night Owl
Maybe, but lets look at it from the competitor's viewpoint.
Trained workforce in place, (motivated to crush the E-1 folks who abandoned them) that knows your competitions methods ex supply chains, pricing, manufacturing know how etc
$12M
Lower cost workforce.
Better weather.
Lower taxes.
$12M
Golfing year round for the execs.
$12M
Close to growth area (FL) growth = more fire trucks
Remember it's about "Marion County's" Economic Develoopment not just E-1's.
The past owner of E-One says them leaving here is no big deal. Wonder what he knows that others should?
Concerning E-one. Everything and everybody has a trac record. Take a look at the current management of E-one and see what we find. Might be interesting to some.
Hi! I just wanted to say I'm an independent thinker and enjoy reading your website. I'm in favor of the minimum wage increase. It's my opinion the increase will give people more spending money, and that will improve the economy. But even if it doesn't, increasing the wage is the right thing to do. I wish you the best.
Scott,
Welcome to our Blog. We always welcome visitors from the Northwest part of the U.S., or anywhere. We do have some regulars from several other states. Our topics are usually local, but may have some interest to you every now and then.
I visited your various blogs. They are also very interesting and with an International direction.
If other bloggers are interested in viewing Scott’s blogs, just click on his name in his post above and it will link you to his profile, with connections to his blogs.
Leesburg is in the bidding for E-One. Good for them! Check the news in the morning.
Locating there might help keep some of the local employees employed. Longer commute, but at least a job.
Yes, and Enterprise Florida is working with both counties on keeping E-1 in Ocala and attracting them to Leesburg. Duh!!!
So what? EF is probably doing all they can to keep E-one in Florida.
Note this change: Ocala City Council is now scheduled to discuss zero budgeting on February 6. Originally many of us thought it would be discussed this week.
I'm ready to get my share to keep my business in the County!
$7.8 million in cash out of $13.5 million to the E-One company. I say NO! Write your City Council and County Commissioner and tell them you do not want to support payments for E-One's management incompetence.
I just answered the Star Banner's poll on the issue. Results, when I did it, are very similar to where the Politically Homeless website poll came out. About a margin of 4% saying NO to the E-One deal.
Don't let it happen.
“Agent”, haven’t you figured it out since you moved here?
Marion County Democracy goes like this.....Go to work, pay your taxes, shut the hell up, believe what we tell you – and if we want your opinion, we’ll give it to you.
Agent....
It's a really a shame you had to get "ignored" by our leaders so quickly. I got a feeling you were sincere in your efforts to help make a difference in this county.
It does not take long to see how this county works. Be very careful who you pick as allies and friends here. More likely then not they are wolves in sheeps clothing.
I don't think I need to tell you now who to watch out for. Stay with us though.
Hey "let-em-go".....
The poll is increasing to nearly 60% against and 40% for! I also voted and posted to help stop this epic bilking of the taxpayers in Marion County.
Pete Tesch will be on 97.3 today. Let's see what the master of buffunery has to say.
Hey Blog Master you're killing this blog by moderating it!
Christopher,
We would like to stop "Moderating" the comments. However, there are two problems:
1. Some people who don't seem to like the Blog continue to post "spam", most of which is not fit for anyone to see, and is down right nasty. One post was actually so long it shut down the ability to post to that thread until we could clear it.
2. We are continuing to get unwanted advertising at the rate of 10-15 posts a day that is being spread throughout the Blog. Most is for porno sites, viagra, etc.
Until we get both of these under control, we will continue to moderate for awhile longer. Most posts are usually not that delayed in getting them online.
Sorry, but that's life as the Blog Master!
I would like to challange Mr. Thurow to explain specifically how the Blog wizard is moderating legit posts. Inquiring minds want to be educated.
/s/
Charles, who can not remember his PW
Agent....Don’t get too frustrated with what seems little attention being paid to the ZBB idea. My experience is that ideas are sometimes slow to be considered and implemented in local government. ZBB has probably not yet surfaced on the political items-of-interest list. So don’t throw in the towel yet. I haven’t.
I recently sent something to my Commissioner and asked him to consider the ZBB concept. I have not yet heard from him one way or the other. However, I'm confident that he won’t just let the idea go into some bureaucratic black hole. He has always told me whether he agrees or disagrees with any suggestions I have given him. I’m sure he will on this one.
It took the County about three years to go from citizen idea to completion of Liberty Park, as an example of things not always moving as fast as they should. At the company I retired from, we negotiated and purchased five sizable parcels of land in China and built and started up five manufacturing plants (including distribution centers at two of them) on the land purchased. All in just 18 months!
Things just move a bit slower in the public sector; sometimes for good reasons. I have learned patience and persistence.
Hang in there!
Hey Charles....I wasn't charging the blog chief with anything. I simply wanted to speed things up. He has good reasons to do what he's doing. No gripe from me.
Agent,
Appreciate your mentioning our Blog in your S-B posting.
However, please note you gave an incorrect link to the PH Blog.
Correct link is:
www.politicallyhomeless.blogspot.com
A 5 cent increase in the gasoline tax is fine with me. Just decrease my property tax by an equivalent amount.
Agent,
You commented:
"I noticed the mistake did you correct it ? If not I will."
I did not make a correction. thought you might want to do that under your post name
48% in favor of welfare E-1! That proves what I have always reckoned, your blogger is patronized by quite a few bleeding heart liberals.
Stan wrote: "Things just move a bit slower in the public sector; sometimes for good reasons."
Add a sentence to that: But most of the time for no good reason(s).
A 1/4 mill reduction in my property tax and you'll get my YES to a nickel gas tax.
5 cent gasoline tax = $65/year more out of my budget.
Reduce the millage = $60/year reduction in my property taxes.
Just about a wash.
Don
(OTOW)
My view on how the saga of E-One is going to go down:
After much, much hand wringing, the local powers that be will vote to give E-One the money they want.
E-One will say "thanks, but no thanks" and leave Ocala.
The politicians will tout how responsible they were to the community in trying to save E-One and how irresponsible E-One is for leaving.
E-One will PR campaign their disappointment that the local community was not competitive with how other communities view the value of E-One’s presence. They were given no choice but to leave.
All parties to the saga will live happily thereafter, and our economy will not collapse.
I saw a poll in I think the South Marion Citizen that people said by 57% to 43% that the local government should NOT bail out E-1. That's a pretty wide margin.
Did anyone hear Pete Tesch on 97.3 on Friday?
Agent . . .I just got around to emptying my answeering machine yesterday, and then walked off and left your number on my counter -- a senior thing, I guess. Call me Monday ayem at 694-1461 please kind sire. --pwf
As for E-1 results, I have been surprised at the lack of support among the folks I see who favor ANY bailout for E-One. In the last four weeks, I doubt I have talked to more than a dozen who favor giving gthem money and two of them are good friends who are employed at E-One. One govt type told me the real financial cost to E-one is three percent for each employee, and he suggested (privately) if the employees want to keep their jobs they should offer to take a three percent cut in pay. My experience (worth what you are paying for it) is that E-One has already decided to leave. -- pwf
I heard Tesch on Friday. Chip was very kind but nontheless showed Tesch has no credibility whatsoever.
(He never has had any credibility, he just spends taxpayer money on his flights of fantasy.)
The poll that was 57-43 against funding E-One was an Ocala newspaper poll, not the SMC--unless they had exactly the same result, which I doubt they did.
See E Go:
I think you may have it right.
Also, why don't the E-1 employees volunteer to a wage reduction or other give backs to make up the money E-1 needs? Great idea suggested by one of the bloggers!
biggest mistake made by e-one employees; they should have voted in the union. cause there is sure as hell no one looking out for them now.
Federal Signal would then have simply sold the company to a straw company who would have bankrupted it, and another straw company would have picked up the pieces and moved it to Georgia or whereever and then sold to Federal Signal. Unions are NOT the answer.
You got that right. They would have been out of here in a flash if the union had been voted in.
I'd love to know the extent in which Clerk of the Court David Ellsperman had a hand in this E-One give-a-way.
After all he is a member of the EDC and is the keeper of the county funds. He appears to be pro-give-a-way kind of guy and he loves to keep his squeeky clean low profile. All the characteristics of a taxpayers nightmare.
Maybe I'll do a public records request for all communications between Mr. Ellspermans office and the following:
-Pete Tesch
-Charles Dassance
-Patrick Howard
-Brad Rogers
and of course the President of E-One
Anybody else I'm missing?
Mr. T
I am curious why Mr. Ellsperman popped up on your radar screen, as he seems to be off everyone elses. I am a lawyer, but no friend of Mr. Ellsperman. I have personally been to the clerk's offices in most of the Florida counties, From Monroe to Santa Rosa. Marion's office is presently one of the best equipped from a public access/computer standpoint. This was not always so.
Back to my question. What drags Ellsperman into the frey?
First some facts:
The Clerk serves as the chief financial officer of the county. In this capacity the clerk ensures that all expenditures of county funds are authorized by law.
The Clerk serves as the Budget Officer for the Board of County Commissioners.
Mr. Ellspermann presently serves as Ocala/Marion County Economic Development Corporation Board of Directors, CFCC Public Policy Institute. His recent past service to Marion County included Central Florida Community College Foundation. All have some degree of interst in E-One.
Mr. Ellesperman is the county official who...um...."finds" the funds for the BOCC in the county budget to facilitate these um....expenditures. He obviously takes part in the negotiations since he represents many sides in this "project". It would be in the public interets to see what conversations he has had with the various individuals involved.
Also...what does the clerks office being so well equipped with computer technology have to do with this discussion?
You want sunshine law and open records violations.
The County government is full of them. Ever see the discussions between Commissioners in the parking lot before meetings or the side-bar discussions Commissioners have with one another during the meetings. How about "Pipeline Howard" and his individual meetings with Commissioners and others they interact with.
Thurow's records request won't uncover much, cause these guys are masters of the cover up.
I have often wondered why the local paper leaves alone any of these things.
Hey Sunny...I think you'd be suprised how arrogant county officials can be regarding these types of scenarios. They "know" people don't care.
Maybe it wouldn't turn up much but it will keep these people on their toes. If they know we're wacthing they'll be more inclined to watch their P's and Q's.
As far as Ellsperman goes the taxpayers/voters need to see who are pushing these corporate welfare projects and vote accordingly.
Bottom line for now and in the future:
The city and county should immediately cut off any and all funding to the EDC.
PROPERTY TAX TEST
1. Since 2001, how much has Florida’s population increased?
A) 5%
B) 12%
C) 15%
D) 25%
2. Since 2001, what was the total increase in overall local taxes levied?
A) 15%
B) 33%
C) 55%
D) 83%
3. Since 2001, what was the total increase in county taxes?
A) 10%
B) 50%
C) 65%
D) 81%
4. Since 2001, what was the total increase in special district taxes?
A) 27%
B) 55%
C) 75%
D) 107%
Answers: 1-B; 2-D; 3-D; 4-D.
Look at all that money being taken in by Local Governments!!! Now let’s look at how they are spending it.
Mr. T
The point about the computers is only to illustrate, that in some degree Mr. E is doing a good job.
Gimme some specifics,if you have them. I think I know what his job is. What do you have on him? I suspect he is in the EDC for political reasons, or maybe he feels a strange compulsion to help and love the county.
WHAT other elected officials are EDC members?
I would have flunked the tax test, even after I looked at the answers.
I'll be glad to do that:
"The point about the computers is only to illustrate, that in some degree Mr. E is doing a good job."
I hate to break this news but it's the TAXPAYERS who have provided these fine computing systems. NOT Mr. Ellesperman. We provide Mr. Ellsperman a salary of over $ 100,000.00 a year to manage these systems.
"What do you have on him?"
He is enabling the extraction of public funds to benefit a private corporation.
"I suspect he is in the EDC for political reasons, or maybe he feels a strange compulsion to help and love the county."
EDC for poltical reasons? You bet! How does participating in a business organization (EDC) reflect ones love for this county?
WHAT other elected officials are EDC members?
By default all of the county commissioners and the Ocala City Council are members. I guess when these two bodies provide 80% of the EDC funding it would seem a honorary membership would be in order.
In addition to fiscal conservatives tax test (good post) Let me re-post some facts:
Here's the last 6 and then the 10th year of total property taxes levied in Marion County. Tell me what you think.
2006 $344,868,190.15
2005 $273,032,564.32
2004 $244,764,442.50
2003 $226,305,099.36
2002 $205,460,131.35
2001 $183,763,155.17
2000 $170,414,037.28
1997 $142,891,619.36
Population, 2005 estimate 303,442
Population, 2000 258,916
Population, percent change, April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2005 17.2%
I guess we need twice as much money to take care of 18% more people.
A news summary from the St. Pete Times:
"Crist Aims at Local Spending
After effectively demonizing the insurance industry to force lower rates, Gov. Charlie Crist is now aiming his populist us-versus-them rhetoric at city and county governments. His new pitch: Property taxes must come down, partly because city and county commissioners spend too much money."
GO CHARLIE!
Christopher Thurow:
Glad to see your interest in being sure we are getting the correct skinny on the dealings of our county government.
Just what is the EDC's function? Who pays their salaries? I'm sure my facts are wrong, but orginally when the EDC was started, many, many moons ago, wasn't it a branch of the Chamber of Commerce? I don't understand why we have to bribe a business to stay in Marion County. Did the EDC offer any incentives to other companies in Ocala like Custom Windows, Quality Banner, Microdyne, Closet Maid just to name a few, when they expanded?
Is a Constitutional Amendment to cap local spending in the cards? I hope so.
Anonymous 5:46 inquires
" Did the EDC offer any incentives to other companies in Ocala like Custom Windows, Quality Banner, Microdyne, Closet Maid"
Public records reveal "grants & incentives" as follows;
Note I don't know the alphabet soup, except "EFI" means Ocala Utilities money. The rest comes from other sources, most probably the State, and perhaps the Federal.
Custom Windows, EIF/EDTF $1,053,984
Custom Windows, Land $35,000
Quality Banner, -0-
Microdyne, unk*
Closet Maid (clarison?) 319,594
DISCLAIMERS
This info came from a document called "Ocala and Marion County's Industrial and Commerical Growth Impact 1998-2006" and is subject to the limitations inherent therein. If ya want a copy either call the EDC 291-4410 or post a fax # and one will appear, sooner or later.
In the EDC annual report, it is stated that the City contributes $195,000 and the county forks over $145,000.
Has anyone heard of comments made by ANY of our county commissioners? You know...real "position" comments.
It's like this E-One thing doesn't exist at the BOCC!!
I heard "George" on the 97.3 radio show yesterday. I know "George" he's a member of the Republican Executive Commmittee here in Marion. He thinks this is a great idea. Hey Geroge...Socialism is NOT a conservative or even a democratic idea.
I hope "George" has sent in a big donation to keep E-One here. After all he should back up his words with action....and stay out of my wallet!!!
There must be a lot of retired or self employed people on this blog, judging from the times their coments are posted. If names were used, it would be most interesting to see if our government employees were posting during their work day.
Self emploued
Anon belched..."it would be most interesting to see if our government employees were posting during their work day"
Sounds like somebody doesn’t care for some of the posts here and are once again attempting to censor this site and or get someone fired. Why all of the anger at government employees?
Many government employees work from 7am until 2pm. Many work shift work. Many work rotation schedules. Many are on call. Many have Internet privileges during breaks. Some have Internet connectivity via handheld devices.
Find some other way to shut people up.
Thanks CT. That sounds much like a replay of a Ferguson hate post.
Anyone remember what happened back several years ago when either the City or County helped Martin Marietta Company by giving them about a million dollars worth of facilities to build here? I'm new but a friend thought they didn't get the contract they needed the new facilities for and skipped out on their obligations.
You want a way to kill the E-One deal faster than you can say Jiminy Cricket?
Simple, all the state, city of Ocala and county has to do is give E-One the $13.5 million of taxpayer funds, and ask for a written ten-year commitment from E-One to comply with the Florida public meeting and open-records laws for government agencies.
So long E-One!
That's really not a bad idea.
I THINK MARTIN MARIETTA IS STILL IN OCALA BUT IS NOW LOCKHEED. THAT'S A QUESTION NOT A FACT.
If they really do this, local governments are going to have to get on the ball in reviewing budget spending. How about zero based budgeting?
{Speaking in Sarasota on Friday, Marco Rubio (Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives) said that local governments should be barred from increasing spending in their annual budgets beyond the percentage growth in population and inflation.
That would be a significant change for Florida, where revenue taxed by local governments since 2000 has been nearly 2.5 times as great as the increase in population and inflation.
"It's a very simple equation," said Rubio, R-Miami.
"If your taxes are growing faster than your income, and they continue to do so over a long enough period of time, you're going to have a problem."
State and local taxing powers are controlled by the state constitution, and Rubio said he hopes to put a constitutional amendment before voters that would offer "meaningful and comprehensive" property tax reform for full and part-time homeowners and owners of businesses and rental properties.}
I'm not sure how to say this in a diplomatic way but CT is pathetic (almost childlike in his whining).
Post after post (calling pete tesch master of buffunery, jumping the blogmaster for filtering the blog, stating what a bad job our elected officials city, county, and state are doing) and then complaing about hateful posts when someone has a different opinion from him.
Hey Christopher, aren't you a govt employee? Let's see, the taxpayers (through the form of a paycheck) help you pay your monthly expenses? you sit on taxpayer time and post to this blog? or are you on break? You have tried to run for office in this county; if ever elected will you then whine about your salary as an elected official? With all the growth rhetoric and arm chair quarterbacking you do about this community haven't you just been here less than 10 years. I am not saying that disqualifies you to an opinion but it seems you were given a ticket into marion county on the "growth bus". And now that you are here, well your comments on this blog speak volumes.
Sorry but simply pathetic.
city worker at home said...
"Thanks CT. That sounds much like a replay of a Ferguson hate post."
Find someone else to blame. The point is well taken that a public records file might turn up some intersting facts about posts, govt workers and their use of the internet at work, but someone else will have to do it, not me. I choose not to get into a pissing match with skunks. You might want to chdck out the facts before mjumping on board someone else's case. And since you are so brave, sign your name. At lease Ct has that much courage. --pwf
And Anon who was posting while I nwas writing my post is not me. I would have signe dmy nam,e. Many of his points are very well taken. By the way, for the record, Ellspermann's computer technology did not cost the property taxpayers a dime. It comes from other sources of revenue including filing fees -- taxes, yes, but not property taxes. --pwf
In re: questions about Martin-Mariette.
The name is now Lockheed Martin, they remain a big presence at Silver Springs Shores. At one time, they leased a major facility (where a big car dealer is now on 17th St) and did get some city funds for employee training to get it opened. When the govt contract dried up before the terms of the agreement was completed, it is my recollection the city got at least part of the money back. And I think Martin-Marietta bought out the remaining years of their lease. Memory tells me it was a prtetty fair deal for all concerned. --pwf
Anonymous said...
"Just what is the EDC's function? Who pays their salaries? I'm sure my facts are wrong, but orginally when the EDC was started, many, many moons ago, wasn't it a branch of the Chamber of Commerce?"
Your facts are correct, Anonymous. EDC was started as the "Committee of 100" in 1955 or 1956 as 100 businessmen (there weren't any businesswomen here at that time. Honest!) put up $100 each, and they used the Chamber as the vehicle to seek new businsses and small industry. When these businessmen would travel, they would make personal calls on other companies and leave information about Ocala. The mobile home industry was the first large scale success as they opened branches of firms from Indiana -- Pacemaker, Skyline, etc and then suppliers for them followed along. None got anything, period, only the thanks of a grateful community.
The city in 1961 began to build the current airport, and when it was opened, closed the old airport and turned it into an industrial park, where many of these businesses were located.
Target is the approximate location of the airport terminal and hangers for the aviation business. The school system's adult education center is the location of the old Greenville Air Training center where WW II pilots were trained.
In 1960, the first BIG result fo the Committee of 100 came when U.S. Concrete Pipe Co. opened a "vitrified clay tille pipe" plant south on US 442 at 52nd St, now an assortment of businsses.
The Committee of 100 name was changed and a full time exec was hired about 1980-82 and the two groups split and the EDC moved firtst to the Soverign Bldg and then to the Cascades.
Statements have been made on the blog that would indicate most of their funding comes from govt sources. Not so. The city gives less than $200K as I recall and the county elss than $150K, and in the county's case, it did require justification that met approval before being spent. Not sure if that is still the case or not. The business community pledged several million to the EDC in a large capital drive a year or tweo ago after an intensive citizen study (I participated) sought answers about what Ocalans thought of our community and what we wanted in the future.
For the record, I am not nor have I ever been a member of the EDC or committee of 100. I am glad there is a group available to answer questions of business that may want to come to Ocala altho I have long since realized that business development here does not reduce our taxes, but increases demand for services and therefore increases property taxes.
Nuf for now. --pwf
Anon 9:44. Even though you hide behind your anonymous post I appreciate the feedback and offer my replies:
"... (almost childlike in his whining).Post after post (calling pete tesch master of buffunery, jumping the blogmaster for filtering the blog, stating what a bad job our elected officials city, county, and state are doing) and then complaing about hateful posts when someone has a different opinion from him."
For the past 75 years in the state of Florida public officials have not had the fortitude to say no to anything that curtails spending. They only know how to say yes to spending. "Whining"? Maybe. Crying in desperation? Surely!
Yes to charity and welfare.
Yes to unbridled development
Yes to corpoarate welfare
Yes to most social programs
Yes to almost anyhthing that buys them a vote.
I never jumped on the blogmaster. I made a suggestion. BTW he/she implemented it.
Pete Tesch is a buffoon. I stand by that statement 100%
I only respond when I feel it's necessary
"Hey Christopher, aren't you a govt employee? You sit on taxpayer time and post to this blog?" or are you on break?
When I post I am always on my own time. Sorry
" You have tried to run for office in this county; if ever elected will you then whine about your salary as an elected official?"
I have activley lobbied to have have county commission payrates reduced. I feel a charter county should be established so we could either raise the rate of pay or lower it. What have you done?
"With all the growth rhetoric and arm chair quarterbacking you do about this community haven't you just been here less than 10 years. .. it seems you were given a ticket into marion county on the "growth bus".
My family has been in Florida for four generations. I have lived in several Florida counties. If that can be construed as "riding the growth bus", what can I say?
"simply pathetic."
It's pathetic that more people do not get involved with challenging our elected public officials. Taxes are so beyond out of control right now it's pathetic. Your time would be better spent helping the cause instead of attacking those who are doing something.
Thanks for comments
wish ct would show all these times he has worked and lobbies to control growth, cut salaries etc. his appearances have been nil and no one I have talked with have ever seen him. made similar claims last year during school board race about impact fees and proven to be false.
PWF:
Thanks for filling me in on the Martin Marietta thing.
The hate just keeps on coming...
"wish ct would show all these times he has worked and lobbies to control growth, cut salaries etc. his appearances have been nil and no one I have talked with have ever seen him. made similar claims last year during school board race about impact fees and proven to be false."
I have never had intentions on turning myself into a commission chamber gadfly. I assume until such time that I spend at least as much time in the Marion commission chambers, as some in this community have, I will never be as important as them.
Like so many of the other self proclaimed political firefighters (who by the way are in these circle to enrich themselves) I have choose not enage in political butt kissing. This activity being the single most valuable tool for political action/gain here in Marion.
It's truly amazing that some of the folks here know so much about me from the length of time I've lived here, right through to what I do for a living and what I eat for breakfast. They never stop and think that political activism can take place outside of their little puny little make-up world in Marion County. They should make an honest attempt to pull there heads out of the sand.
The view beyond the county line is exquisite!
For all of the "I hate Thurow" folks....
I understand better than anyone else in this county why I am so hated. I refuse to kiss ANYBODY'S ass to make political gains.
Could I ever get elected here? I doubt that very seriously.
I would however feel very safe in saying that 90% of elected officials here are addicted to Chap Stick.
Now I'll sit back and watch all of the anonymous hate posts appear.
C Thurow,
Keep on pushing the issues my man!!!
AGENT---Kudos to you on your accuracy in predicting the housing sales situation. I remember someone, I think a real estate guy, coming on the blog and saying you were all wet. Didn't turn out that way. That guy's attempts to spin the local housing situation seems to have spun out.
Good job Agent.
Yeh, I saw that report in the paper a few days ago. Was much closer to what agent has been saying.
The conversation again turns personal, and that is a shame. Since I stay pretty budy and dont have time to read everything, I have to catch up when I can. I do not read any "hate CT' postings, but I do see some reasonable questions:
CT says:
"I have never had intentions on turning myself into a commission chamber gadfly. I assume until such time that I spend at least as much time in the Marion commission chambers, as some in this community have, I will never be as important as them."
Christopher, my man, no one expects you or anyone else to become a "commission gadfly." And if working for several years to try to imporve government turned poeple into gadflies, there are a handful in Marion County who may qualify.
People do expect, however, for your claims to be somewhat true. No one I know (certainly not everyone by a long shot) can ever remember a word about commission salary reductions, in fact you ran for the job and could have touted that back then, but nary a word that I recall. Just like there are no impact fee statements from you to any school board members, but we went through that one, didn't we.
Also, I have a hunch you will find that the county commission, city council and clerk are now all members of the Board of the EDC. Historically, the chairman and president of the council have been ex-officio and frequently do not attend meetings, but are on hand to provide information that may be needed about future plans of local govt. In fact, the EDC does not get much of what it wants. I have earlier for another poster explained the formation of the EDC and its funding.
As for David Ellspermann, I'm not sure why you have a hard on for him, but it is grossly misdirected. You might want to pick on someone who has a little less stature in the community and who is not known for the excellense in performance that he is known for, and rightly so.
We have had this discussion about his job duties before, but my understanding David is NOT a member of the EDC Board and if he is a member of EDC, it is like he is a member of the Kiwanis or Rotary or whatever he is a member of -- EDC is a community organization that works for Ocala and Marion County, and David has for many years been a part of organziations he feels benefits the community. (I wont ask for your record of community involvement.)
Profesionally, Ellspermann makes sure the money is spent according to law, and has on occasion had to decline to spend and sign checks as the commission directed when it would have guided them afoul of the law.
I did take the time to talk with a commissioner over the weekend and no proposal has come to the Board as yet. This particular commissioner suggested before you get their panties in a twit (my phrase) one might find out what is being proposed FIRST. This commissioner does not know the details of the proposal, but any thought that a check is about to be written by anybody or combination of bodies for $13 plus million is a bunch of hooey.
I do not know what the proposal is, have not cared enough to try to find out and I am confident I could with about fifteen minutes and paybe three calls. But have patience my friends and when the proposal is laid out, then we can all pick it apart.
And for the record, please give a define a "buffoon". One might try a mirror. --pwf
Life is a series of compromises.
I am sure everyone here has something to add, but IMO listening to them, far too often, results in too much chaff and too little wheat.
I would install an ignore, if I were the wizard of the blog.
Charles, who can't remember his PW
There has been no presentation to the elected officials other than the newspaper reports, which are somewhat suspect. A deligation, which had no authority to bind, made a presentation, not an offer, not a proposal, but a presentation.
E One has their cards down. They have given no commitment.
I wonder if this thing is going to pop up on the agenda as a last minute addition, so as to foreclose public input. Lets see who runs government, Pete Tesch or the people.
This is the power of the people, who after hearing and smelling the "presentation" have raised hell.
It seems the county, who is "paws up" on their water utility investment, is ill-equipped to cough up 4 large for E-One.
Sounds like someone really screwed up the communications on the E-One deal getting to the right elected officials! The sunshine law is for all of the people and not just exclusively the newspapers. I think government needs a way to better communicate with citizens than just depending primarily on the newspapers. The Star Blunder, in particular, is awful about getting things correct, as a blogger pointed out in the post above.
Sounds like there may be some elected officials who are going to be a bit p.....off when the E-One numbers get to them.
Agree, the county utilities is a bad situation and would rather put my money there than E-One. Hope that is what happens.
Mr. Ferguson:
A "hard on" is an erection of the penis brought on by sexual stimulation. Your filty comment that Mr. David Ellsperman somehow sexually stimulates me is absolutely gutter politics.
You owe this blog an apology for your pornographic slur.
If anybody on this blog honestly thinks that any county commissioner does not know the details about the E-One deal let me know.
The fact is by the time the public has the opportunity to debate these types of deals the check has not only been written, it's already in the mail.
The Marion County mantra:
Keep quiet. Stay in line. Don't make waves. Be good and we'll allow you to keep your job
CT:
I believe it is possible that all of the elected officials who should know about the E-1 deal don't.
Wonder why pwf makes such a comment about CT? Is pwf having problems with his own hardware?
Funny how people can avoid the real question. The phrase has no sexual meaning in today's parlance. It means, as you well know, what rubs your rubarb. If you can show even a crumb of evidence that Ellspermann has done anything wrong, let'e see it. And there was no problem with my hardware last time I could see if. --pwf
As for the E-1 details . . .
There is no deal yet as I understand it. There are some parameters. When there is a deal, I suspect we all will know about it. Anyone who has any inside knowledge of any deal, let's hear it. Meanwhile, I am willing to wait until the proposal is presented and see how it works out. Who knows, it may have something in it for all of us. --pwf
If you’re not interested in clarification of the dealings of local gadflies please jump to the next post.
Let me put this fantasy world of Paul Ferguson to rest.
Paul dislikes me because I fired him during my last campaign. He only seeks to discredit me.
Regarding my lobbying for impact fees over the course of the last 10 years. During my run for commissioner, a quote of mine appearing in the August 29, 2004 Star Banner:
“Concurrency statutes must be enforced. The taxpaying public cannot continue to absorb the infrastructure costs associated with development. Impact fees coupled with “gap fees” can be of great use. The present schedule of fees should be readdressed and corrections made.”
BTW they didn’t do that.
Ferguson’s claim that he has spoken to the school board members is another lie. Judy Zanetti as well as Kurt Kelly both have known for years about my stand on these issues. Ferguson has never spoken to either of them about me. Herring ran during the same period when I ran for county commission. He heard my pro-impact fee speech over and over. Prior to my endorsement of Ron Crawford we had a nice one hour long conversation. Ron also was aware of my stand on impact fees and when asked about Ferguson his reply was, “I have never spoken to Paul about you because I don’t talk to Paul.”
When I ran for county commission in 2004 and last year when I ran for school board this man was never once in any audience I spoke before. Every county commissioner since 1996 has had me in their office while I ranted about the fees. I have asked three of them if Ferguson has approached them on this issue. All three answered….no.
More on the clerk of the court later.
A very good friend of mine is working on getting something changed in our local government. He had a quote at the bottom of one of his e-mails that really captures what goes on at times between some of the folks on this blog.
Here is what he says:
“If you want to make enemies, try to change something.”
(a quote by Woodrow Wilson)
CHARLES, what do you think about the quote?
I never heard that quote before...but it is absolutely true!
Thanks
I have never stated Ellsperman has done anything "wrong".
But now you have me on the spot.
If "wrong" means using county (clerk) employees.. during business hours.... to gather ballot signatures...from Paddock Mall...after being told it's prohibited...and violators are considered trespassers....well then "that" possibly may be considered "wrong"! So please don't give us the "stand-up" guy routine.
...but I digress.
The clerk of the court is the CFO for the county and please Ferguson don't give me one of your sidelined civics lessons.
In certain instances the clerk can be personally liable for monies spent on behalf of the commission.
Clerks watch these things carefully.
The clerk is the go-to guy when the board needs money for projects such as the funding of E-One.
"Hey Dave find us this money so we can give it away."
All I want to know is where does this elected official stand on the funding of the E-One project. Is he for it and lobbying for it? Is he staunchly against it?
If he's against it why won't he make a public statement to the effect, "I feel funding this project would detract from other county programs and I see no direct benefit to the citizens of Marion County."
His stand should be made public and then let the voters decide if they want his type of decision maker in office for another 4 years.
To Christopher T: I for one am glad that you are quoting facts. Unfortunately this blog only cares about heresay & gossip. I tried to explain to Mr. Ferguson about a conversation that took place while I was present..yes I am nobody, but I heard what I heard and because I would not reveal whom was having the conversation I was called a liar. Because I have to live in this town, and believe me, I know how things work, I am not willing to move or threaten my family or livelihood over what some jerk councilman says. My whole point to him was that politicians will smooze whomever they have to in order to get elected. Especially since they know this blog can hurt anyone running for office; just by spreading rumors instead of facts.
Humbly, I agree with the quote, and agree that the reaction is common.
However, If the change is for the good, and the resulting enemy opposes it, should we really give a darn if we are ommitted from her Christmas card list?
We all know relationships that have deteriorated when a judge rules against a friend, or the boss downsizes, or when the city eliminates free golf.
The problem is in the converse, when the changemaker values his position too much, and declines change because he fears the backlash. That too, is a common problem.
Like some politico said, "Leadership takes courage"
/s/Charles
Anonymous said: “Unfortunately this blog only cares about heresay (sic) & gossip.”
My comment in response to that: Unfortunately, some of those who comment on this blog like to take facts and reclassify them as hearsay and gossip when the facts don’t match with their point of view.
I imagine mr. Ellspermann will weigh in on e-one when he gets a final recomendation like the rest of the elected officers.
I bet CT is laughing his tail off after reading the prior entry by anonymous. It has pwf written all over it.
CT,
No civic lesson, not even any comment about your claims about me. And no answers to your posts in the future. Not worth my time.
A final comment on your efforts to bring Ellspermann into an argument that has not even started because all of the facts and details are have not been finalized, and, therefore, are not available, even to you. You said . . .
"His stand should be made public and then let the voters decide if they want his type of decision maker in office for another 4 years."
Having not talked talked to David about E-One, I suspect he has no stand at the present. When and if -- and it is a big if because my experience is he does not involve himself in the politics of the Commission and only then to advise them of the legal spending paramaters he must follow -- it becomes necessary for him to speak out, he will speak out as he always has when needed.
And why not demand the same injection of other elected officials into what is not yet a public argument -- poeple like circuit judges, the supervisor of elections or maybe the Governor, our state representatives and senators. After all, the "plan" in the formative stages it is in now, apparently calls for state spending too, which would likely be in the form of road money and probably training money. Those people actually have some control over how money is spent, something Ellspermann does not.
You might want to find some of less stature then David next time you want to try and pick a fight. It would more fair to you. --pwf
Anonymous at 2:57 PM, January 30, 2007 said:
"I bet CT is laughing his tail off after reading the prior entry by anonymous. It has pwf written all over it."
Wrong as usual. But thanks for recognizing talent when you see it. Unfortunately, at that time I was at home trying to get a door open for my wife. Seems after 46 years, the lock came apart inside, and if you have ever tried to use a hacksaw to cut through brass when the full saw can't get into the small space, you will know something far more important than commenting this blog was on my mind. Find someone else to blame, cause I sign my nmae unlike, well, unlike you. --pwf
Ferguson: Nice try. Your little jig is not impressive and it certainly won't help you spin your way out of this one.
You asked for "one shred of evidence" against Ellsperman. You forced my hand and I gave you what you demanded. Where's your rebuttal?
You made the assinine claim I never lobbied for impact fees. I showed you were not only wrong but you have lied to the people on this blog about it.
You are continually caught and exposed in your never ending barrage of lies and character assasination. I have proved for the benefit of the folks here that you deal in inuendo and flights of fantasy.
BTW I absolutely, positively and without hesitation could care less about Mr. Ellspermans "stature" in this community. "More fair to me" you say? How is that?
Is Ellspermann some sort of illustrious hero that everyone holds up to idolize?
His "stature" and a buck will get you a cheap pack of gum.
Hey Master o' the Blog....May I suggest a new thread to discuss the governors new property tax proposals?
pHas anyone heard the new E-One amount discussed at today's meeting with Mr. Tesch, Mr. Owen, Mr. Payton, Mr. Gustafson, the State guy, and someone else, whose name excapes me now?
Item 4 (d) on the City's agenda for Tues, Feb 6, @ 4:00 is a "discussion on Zero budget"
Be there or be square.
Whoa Puffer it looks like CT dun went and CRE-TOOLED ya! We all know that AIN'T funny on THIS blog!
Slim, Other than TRYING to beat up PWF again, probably again unsucessfully, what the hell is your point?
Also, what is CRETOOLED? Speak English to us.
Slim is talking about this Joe Byrnes piece in the paper. Hanson is a friend of pwf and Larry Cretul. Hanson has been named as the blog master on several occasions.
http://blogs.myspaceocala.com/Home/tabid/195/EntryID/329/Default.aspx
Thanks. If it was something in the Stir Blunder then forget it. I don’t read it anymore. It has as much trash, untruths and sleaze about people as do the Ocala Slim comments on this blog.
You got that right!
Best of luck. You're going to need it my friend!
Man if you think there are negative comments about E-one on this blog, you should go check out what they are saying on the one the S-B has. Some downright nasty comments about those E-one bloodsuckers on there!
Nice job Agent. When the county comes around for next years budget I'll be right there with you.
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