Open Thread: It's Your Nickel
{NOTE: This thread of the Blog is full. You can continue to review the many excellent comments made to date. However, to add your comments, please scroll up to: "Open Thread” -- December 26.}
Here are a couple of topics to get you started:
(1) With the road tax being doomed by the voters, what’s the alternative(s)? Our roads are in bad shape and getting worse. So where does the BCC go from here?
(2) What is the best way to deal with train traffic through Ocala? Relocate train routes or build overpasses at critical traffic points?
We’ve transferred a couple of posts from other threads to continue the discussion. Please add any other discussion topics you might have on your mind.
Also, don’t forget to vote in our current “Straw Poll”.
posted by Blog Master @ 7:12 PM
188 Comments:
A Railroad through East Ocala's residential areas . . .
I see by the Star Banner than this idea is back up for another run through the wringer.
FIRST -- if it was approved it would be about 1,000 feet from my house. I am obviously biased.
Second. It is a terrible idea in 2006. In 1906, it would have been a good idea for the people of Ocala to have had the foresight to have run the railroad straght north and south through what today is East Ocala but then was the winderness between Ocala and Silver Springs.
The plan would be to start at the near right angle turn of the tracks near Joy Avenue (NE 35th Street) and run due south, meeting the current alignment south of port City where another near 90 degree turn is made by the tracks -- just straighten them out.
It is proposed by my dear friend Ed Anderson, and another man in whom I have a great deal of confidence and respect, Mike Sizemore, an old railroad man. Their point is straightening the tracks out would keep the 27-28 current trains a day from coming through north Ocala and then west to Ocala, and eliminate all of the traffic tieups at crossings along the way.
In 1906, it may have been feasible, but the business community wanted the training coming through Ocala. And, in 1906, there were no residential areas in East Ocala.
Today, the tracks if moved, would have to start about Joy Avenue and climb to go over Silver Springs Blvd. then across the high terrain of Silver Springs Forest, then down, then up, then down to compensate for the terrain and to cross over NE 7th Street, Ft. King, Eight St. and on across many other streets with another major overpass at Maricamp Road.
Could it be done. Certainly. Anything can be engineered. But you would eliminate many residential areas and be forced to pay damages to those property owners. I saw a wild estimate of coat at $100,000,000. I truly believe it would cost between $100,000,000 and $200,000,000 far, far more than building a half dozen overpasses on major roads along its current alighnment.
It pains me to disagree with my friend Ed and with Mike, but this today is just simply a dumb idea and needs to be dropped. But then I admit I am biased to start with.
1:56 PM, November 18, 2006
Who would have to approve the idea?
Wonder what Ms. Fitos' position is, since it's supported by two of her Democrat supporters?
Just asking.
4:39 PM, November 18, 2006
Copy and paste this link to a Star-Banner editorial giving you some additional background on the train routes issue:
www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060920/OPINION/209200314&SearchID=73263365282487&template=printpicart
Understand one of the overpasses proposed is for the intersection of 17th St. and Pine Ave. I can't believe that would even be possible. What a mess that would be for several years. The businesses in that area might as well pack it in if that happens.
My suggestion to the roads and railroad issues is to go to church and pray for solutions. Cause that is going to solve the problems quicker than our politicians will.
My point of view, the new roads need to be paid for mostly by those building homes and establishing new businesses. The train routes issue is a horse of another color; let CSX work with government to fund this. Bottom line, I think Rock Gibboney may have had it right several years ago when he said we can’t avoid issuing bonds. Both of the above problems may need that.
Perhaps prayer isn't such a bad idea.
I'm with "The Rock"!
Existing roads: Pay for repairs via a gas tax.
New roads: Use a combination of impact fees and bonds.
Train Routes: I haven't a clue! Issue an ordinance to keep them out of Ocala at bad times?
Sounds like a plan to me.
Let me change subjects for just a minute. If you really want to get into the peace movement, suggest you check out a protest planned for December 22. We should all consider participating!
http://www.local6.com/health/10360519/detail.html
This just may be too much for a blog in Marion County, Florida!!
Hope the blog doesn't get censored by the County Commission!
Finally something from a Democrat that I agree with. Congressman Charlie Rangel wants to reinstate the military draft. I'm all for it. Would put a whole new face on going to war.
Don
(OTOW)
Good point of view from a S-B letter writer:
"New Nightmare"
Since when are two railroad overpasses cheaper than one? The proposed eastern route goes across Silver Springs Boulevard/State Road 40 and Maricamp Road/SR464, trading one nightmare for two.
The developers and builders are responsible for this traffic and road mess. Let them pay for it. I believe that is what the taxpayers are trying to say.
That might put the cost of housing closer to what it is in New England, and bring our roads up to par.
Allan R. Davis
Ocala
Rangel is a bit of a kook. However, I have to agree with him on the draft. He brought this up before and it got only a couple of votes. Maybe it will get more attention and support this time. I believe he is also a Vietnam Vet.
I don't disagree with the sentiment that if we're at war we as an entire society should have to feel a little of the pain and make a sacrifice. But rather than reinstate the draft maybe we just start with a pay as you go strategy and eliminate some of the Bush tax cuts.
I just took a look at a map of east Ocala and realized that running train across town isn't such a bad idea. There are high tension power lines running across most of that side of town and I would think that the trains could pretty well follow that. I've got to believe that wouldn't cost the railroads that much to lease. Also, it could run down through the Greenway, which the state shouldn't have a problem giving up. Sure, the people in those neighborhoods, especially between Ft King and SE 24th would be pissed about it, but, as someone who grew up off of 14th St, you do get used to the trains. You'd have to build overpasses at SSB, 7th, Ft King, 24th, and Maricamp, but you'd free up 36th ave, 25th ave, 19th ave, 8th ave, 17th st, and Lake Weir. I think that's a pretty good trade off.
What do you propose for all the other roads that the tracks would cross? The power right of way likely will not be wide enough to handle the right of way needed for a through train. You only see a narrow track, but the right of way must be wider. And what you do not see if much of the train would be on a trestle because of the terrain and the required overpasses. And, as I pointed out in opening the discussion, I am one with a vested interest -- I live there. Damages to existing properties would be very costly. --pwf
I have a solution! Let's blow up the tracks altogether! That eliminates the traffic on the west side and keeps it out of Paul Ferguson's backyard. I think I'll start working on that.
Oops. Better not say that. The NSA might be listening and mistake me for an Islamic terrorist.
Yup. His opinion is the only one that counts. Every time he speaks I see little flying squirrels with fighter helmets. It's Mr. Knowitall
STRAW POLL--"FINAL RESULTS" (75 Participants):
“How will the change to Barbara Fitos from Randy Harris influence the effectiveness of the Board of County Commissioners (BCC)?”
54%---“Improve BCC Performance”
28%---“No Change in BCC Performance”
18%---“Worsen BCC Performance”
Looks like many folks are seeing the change from Harris to Fitos as “positive” and definitely “not a worse situation”. Thanks for your participation!
We will soon see if the blog poll results about Harris not being missed are correct. The ball is now in Fitos's court.
ACTUALLY ROCK, PWF MAKES SOME VERY GOOD POINTS ABOUT THE TRAIN ROUTES...WHETHER YOU LIKE THEM OR NOT.
Here's a wake up call for all of you Paul Ferguson lovers. He always talks about the political history he has been involved with over the past 50 years here in our lovely county. Listen people, he is one of the fathers who created the mess we have now. If anything he is the ringleader of poor growth management and poor roads and poor infrastucture. Ferguson always crows about his powerful influence in politics and how he got so many of our fore-fathers elected all of these years. I don't think that's a very positive thing to claim. Stop adoring the source of our problems and lets get solutions to them.
TheRock,
I would only fault PWF for supporting too damn many Republicans. They, not PWF, are the major source of the county's current problems. It will remain that way until we change the local political power structure.
By the way, what are your solutions to the two issues that we are discussing?
First, work my keaster off to get do-nothings Stan Mc Clain and Charlie Stone booted from office.
Sounds great! But don't see anyone but Republicans in the wings to possibly replace these two guys.
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That may be true this time, but it wasn’t too long ago that we were hearing the same thing said about possible replacements for Harris, and then the unexpected happened.
Does anyone have any specific information on how the actions and positions of McClain the county commissioner compare to the 2004 rhetoric of McClain the county commission candidate?
During the 2004 primary, McClain said he thought there were places to cut the county budget, but everywhere I looked, he gave no specifics beyond his displeasure with the purchase of a $14 book for the public library collection.
During the 2004 general election, I went to a SR 200 Coalition meeting with tape recorder in hand to find out what McClain wanted to cut, but when I asked him, he gave the same vague answer he gave during the primary. His answer amounted to this: Hire me, then I’ll tell you.
If you had driven to Southern California and asked the biggest beach bimbo you could find about the county government budget for Marion County, Florida they would have been able to tell you as much as McClain told voters during his successful 2004 election.
Now that he’s been in office for two years, I’m curious what people have to say about McClain's follow-through as a county commissioner on his campaign rhetoric about the county budget. I don’t follow these matters as closely as some do. I did ask a regular county commission watcher a while back. The only thing he could come up with on the matter was that Stone had asked Harris during budget discussions to come up with a list of what he wanted to cut and that McClain had joined other commissioners in a kind of “yeah, Randy, show us what you want to cut” that led to Harris bringing in a list but not much in the way of action.
McClain has had two years as a county commissioner to study the county budget. What has he supported cutting, and how much does it add up to? So far, I’ve got him down for $14.
The Rock Says:
"Listen people, he is one of the fathers who created the mess we have now. If anything he is the ringleader of poor growth management and poor roads and poor infrastucture. Ferguson always crows about his powerful influence in politics and how he got so many of our fore-fathers elected all of these years. "
Well, the only thing I have fatheredis the best son in Ocala. I have only one vote each election cycle. As for being a ring leader, I suspect I have spoken and written in favor of more taxes through the years to solve problems than any other one person in nthe county. I have always opposed the tourist tax, and this year I opposed the sales tax. So perhaps you would like mto get your facts before you rtun your mouth. I challange you to show one instance when I ever crowed
about my "powerful influence in politics". And I am proud that I have participated in the process that has resulted in many officials being elected through the years. Where have you been during those years? Sitting at home doing nothing.
And for the record, I have supported and worked for more Democrats than Republicans through the years. I try to choose the best person, not a political party. --pwf
I doubt there will be any "excitement" or "surprises" in the Mc Clain district election in 2008. Actually, he has performed much better than many thought he would. He has dissapointed certain people on the far right...that's not bad. He's listening and learning and so far doing "OK".
2008 will be the same old, same old lineup of candidates. McClain, Townley or Yandell versus that Democrat powerhouse, Darlene Weesner. Shades of 2004.
Off topic a bit, but I found this New York Times article that has a pretty insightful look at why we're not winning in Iraq - and it's not liberal whining. Sorry it's a long post, but it's worth the read:
More than three years after the insurgency erupted across much of Iraq, sniping — one of the methods that the military thought would be essential in its counterinsurgency operations — is proving less successful in many areas of Iraq than had been hoped, Marine officers, trainers and snipers say.
In theory, Western snipers are a nearly perfect method of killing Iraq’s insurgents and thwarting their attacks, all with little risk of damaging property or endangering passers-by. But in practice, the snipers say, they are seeing fewer clear targets than previously, and are shooting fewer insurgents than expected.
In 2003, one Marine sniper killed 32 combatants in 12 days, the snipers say, and many others had double-digit kill totals during tours in Iraq. By this summer, sniper platoons with several teams had typically been killing about a dozen insurgents in seven-month tours, with totals per platoon ranging from 3 to as high as 26.
But some snipers now worry that the difficulties they face have been compounded by rules and conditions placed on them by senior military leaders.
Marine snipers have customarily trained to work in two-man teams who hide and stalk for days, seeking targets a half-mile or more away. Often an area might be saturated with snipers, so they can support and protect one another while confusing an enemy force with different angles of fire.
This way, according to their thinking, they can kill more enemy combatants, and sow more fear.
Those two-man teams are not allowed in Iraq, in part because of the killings of two groups of snipers earlier in the war.
In the first episode, in 2004 in Ramadi, four Marine snipers were killed without firing a shot, apparently after being surprised in a shooting position in an urban area, known in sniper jargon as a hide. An investigation suggested that they had been overwhelmed and executed.
In 2005, a six-man sniper team from a Marine reserve unit was killed in Haditha. The insurgents videotaped a display of the slain team’s equipment, including a marine’s dog tags, and circulated the spectacle on the Internet.
The losses have made commanders hesitant to send out small teams, Marine officers said, a decision that many snipers said inhibits their work.
Snipers argue a counterintuitive point, saying that even though two-man teams have less firepower and fewer men, they are safer because they can hide more effectively.
Sgt. Joseph W. Chamblin, the leader of the battalion’s First Sniper Team, said the sniper community was suffering from an overreaction. “It’s sad that they got killed, but when you think about it, we’ve been here three years, going on four, and we’ve only had two teams killed,” he said. “That’s not that dramatic.”
Sergeant Chamblin killed for the first time on Nov. 10, shooting an insurgent who was putting a makeshift bomb beside a bridge near Saqlawiya, near Falluja, a spot where a similar bomb killed three marines and a translator this summer.
He said snipers were willing to assume the risk of traveling in pairs. “It’s a war,” he said. “People are going to die, and the American public needs to get over that. They need to get over that and let us do our job.”
Snipers also say that other force-protection issues are limiting their operations, including requirements to wear helmets and flak jackets, which slow snipers down and make hiding more difficult.
“You go to a 10-week sniper course and never in that course are you in Kevlar and a helmet,” Sergeant Jones said. “Then you come to Iraq and immediately you’re in your flak jacket and helmet, and you’ve got a huge pack of gear.”
Sergeant Chamblin agreed. “We are carrying way more stuff than we can be tactically sound with,” he said. “My arms are numb because my pack is so heavy. Sometimes, on my missions, my pack has weighed more than I have, and I weigh 150 pounds.”
The military has also tightened rules of engagement as the war has progressed, toughening the requirements before a sniper may shoot an Iraqi. Potential targets must be engaged in a hostile act, or show clear hostile intent.
The marines say insurgents know the rules, and now rarely carry weapons in the open. Instead, they pose as civilians and keep their weapons concealed in cars or buildings until just before they need them. Later, when they are done shooting, they put them swiftly out of sight and mingle with civilians.
To Anonymous: "2008 will be the same old, same old lineup of candidates. McClain, Townley or Yandell versus that Democrat powerhouse, Darlene Weesner. Shades of 2004." Don't forget to add Mosley to your lineup. She is grooming big time for either City Council or a County Commissioner post.
Yes, but Sue Mosley will most likely run in Kesselring's district not in McClains. We may very well have two female commissioners in 2008.
Mosley needs to move up to the legislature. She's the most popular politician on the local scene, at least judging by her margin of victory. If she's running for anything, it should be Baxley's open seat, or if she's really got balls, she should throw herself into the fight for Argenziano's open Senate seat.
pwf said to The Rock:
“I challange [sic] you to show one instance when I ever crowed about my ‘powerful influence in politics.”
Well, I doubt we’ll have to go very far back in time to stuff this turkey. Let’s see, oh, here we are, just a few weeks ago right here on the blog.
At 9:12 AM, October 31, 2006, pwf said:
“I have perhaps 150 to 175 races over 48 years and a winning percentage of at least 75%.”
It’s interesting that he claims to be responsible for the results of local political races 48 years ago when he was a 22-year-old wet-behind-the-ears newspaper reporter toting a camera and reporter’s notebook around Marion County. This is yet another episode of “Uncle Paul Takes the Politically Homeless Blog on a Trip to Gasbag City.” Next, he’ll be telling us how he negotiated an end to the Korean War when he was 17 and gave DiMaggio a run for the American League batting title when he was 4.
Ferguson’s whoppers are airy and not very filling. I’m headed off for some real Thanksgiving food.
Doesn't matter what anyone thinks!
CSX is GOD
Following that same logic of margin of victory Sarah Ritterhoff Williams won by the same margin as Mosley..........What does she run for next???????
Don't know for sure. However, I hope some female with a solid legal background runs against that arrogant State Attorney Brad King. He's another one of those Harris types that needs to be dealt with. He's also incompetent. Look at his handling of the Couey situation.
The chronic complainer wrote I said At 9:12 AM, October 31, 2006, pwf said:
“I have perhaps 150 to 175 races over 48 years and a winning percentage of at least 75%.”
"
If that be crowing, so be it. It is simply the facts. If untrue, why did so many come back for another go around?
Just because no one listens or pays attention to you, don't think others can not have a valued place in the process.
Hope you enjoyed your turkey. Ours was fantastic.--pwf
Listen Ferguson I've spent the last 20 years traveling from one air force base to the next training jet engine mechanics, not sitting at home. How dare you even make that claim when you do not even know who you're talking about. I've put up with your crappy candidates for too long. All of the people on this blog who talk about your long winded arrogence are right on the point. Stop trying to weasel out of your filthy lying comments. We've had enough of you and your tax and spend political life.
BC wrote:It’s interesting that he claims to be responsible for the results of local political races 48 years ago when he was a 22-year-old wet-behind-the-ears newspaper reporter toting a camera and reporter’s notebook around Marion County.
What the hell DID Ferguson write about? Has anyone ever read his supposed work? I have read a bunch. It's trash that a third grader could have written. Ferguson you are out.
I am glad you can travel and train people. Too bad you did not learn anything about local politics. If you can not read at a fourth grade level, guess you had better stick to third grade. Guess you have no qualifications to to discuss issues so you are working on me. But that is okay, professionals have been after me before, so let the wantabees climb on board and have at it.
At least I have the courage to post my name. Even BC posts his. What's your reason for a lack of accountability? Have a good weekend. -- pwf
Well folks at least we know "therock" is not Rock Gibboney. I was beginning to wonder there for awhile.
I too wondered given that Gibboney has no use for Ferguson. The clear tip-off it wasn't Gibboney was the negative comment about McClain and Stone.
Yep, Rock loves those two guys.
Watch for me on TV tomorrow. We will be making anoter step toward the national championship game.
GO GATORS!
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The ersatz political consultant said:
“I have perhaps 150 to 175 races over 48 years and a winning percentage of at least 75%.”
“If that be crowing, so be it. It is simply the facts. If untrue, why did so many come back for another go around?”
I have never heard of Ferguson producing a list of these 150-175 races for a potential client or anyone else. Let’s see these “facts.” Let’s see the list of 150-175 races for which he claims responsibility. I doubt he has such a list, and I doubt he’ll ever produce one. Too many people on it would dispute what he had to say. His ego couldn’t take it. He simply lacks the courage to produce such a list.
Candidates like Payton and Stone with money to hire talent go up the road to Roger Austin. If Ferguson were the amazing political consulting talent he imagines himself to be, they would not have to take their business out of town. If you look at our current county commission, whom could Ferguson possibly claim among his victories? Certainly not Payton, Stone, Fitos, or McClain. He didn’t even support the latter three of these.
In the past few years, Ferguson has been losing county commission races and bottom feeding on the little school board races. The main exception to this is Dean, who won last time in spite of the incredibly tedious mailings Ferguson produced for him.
Ref. the comments above about our state attorney. I could have some dedicated personal political enthusiasm in support of a good candidate to replace Brad King. It would be an uphill battle, but that’s what makes it interesting. Been down that road in the past. Would likely get some serious and substantial backing from several local popular and influential individuals for the right person.
BLOGGER SCORECARD!
My take on some recent interchanges between PWF and B. Creekbaum as to “Winning Posts”:
PWF = 9 Wins
BC = 3 Wins
You're being generous to Creekbaum.
I sure would love to know why some of these posters care so deeply for Puffer! I didn't realize who Paul Ferguson was until the last election when he was running down one of the school board candidates, ad nauseum.
I made the connection with him getting involved in hospital business which he knows nothing about several years back. What a clown. He tried to be a big time PLAYER. He made a fool of himself.
After some research he is in fact one of the political figures in this town who has created the mess we're in. He has pushed for more taxes for his pet projects than probably any one person. So whoever made the comment about his tax and spend stuff you've hit the nail on the head. I don't even need to mention his utterly ridiculous pieces he did for Sue Mosely. Oh and Mc Clain and STone, yes they are do nothings.
Ridiculous pieces. Didn't Mosley win?
Don't be too quick to judge Mc Clain. He may be just what the doctor ordered out from under the influence of Harris.
I could judge that Ocalaslim is a frustrated female who might need a weekend in Connecticut with a truck driver to adjust her attitude, but I'll hold on that decision. The way she seems to hate some of the local men would make you really wonder!
For now, I'll give her (?) the benefit of the doubt.
Her (?). That’s a good point about ocalaslim. Sounds more and more like a female version of Brian Creekbaum. Do you think they could be the same person? Naw, Mr. Creekbaum already guaranteed us that he always makes his comments using his own name. Blogman, could you track down and compare the ISP for each of them?
Election Analysis: Your Thoughts?
At least I thought that was the topic for this thread. But noooo, it's beat the crap out of each other. ocalslim, pwf, bc; most of us could care less what you all think of each other. Let's get back to the political future of Marion County or whatever.
What do you all think of consolidation of City and MC services?
With the current city council and their out of control attitude toward growth, I'll stick with things the way they are. Any thoughts on who might take on Kent Guinn and Mary Sue Rich in next year's elections?
I attended the first commissioner meeting in November and Charlie Stone started the consolidation efforts. He asked the county parks department and the citizen advisory committee for parks to bring to the BCC a proposal for combining the municipal and county parks. You can see what Charlie had to say on the new videos of commission meetings at the County website. Select agendas and then view videos. Charlie’s comments are at the end of the meeting.
Rumor on several of the national political blogs: Mel Martinez will resign as U.S. Senator too become the full time head of the Republican Party. That will allow new governor Charlie Crist to appoint Jeb Bush as the replacement for Martinez. Interesting speculation!
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Now, Jeb to the Senate.... that's a good idea.
So how would all parks fare under the County? Comments that the County operation has improved significantly are often heard. Would things become more efficient conbined under the County or is it just a way for the City to pass costs off to the County?
Ha! That's the only way the Republicans could hold Martinez's Senate seat in 2010. Martinez certainly couldn't do it himself!
So *slime is back . . .
So I know nothing about the hospital, eh . . . well, you were probably part of the sisterhood that got upset when the foundation director "accepted the opportunity" to step down. Funny how things have improved so much since her departure. My involvement pro and con on the hospital dates back a few more years than you have been alive.
And as for my tax and spend projects .. . what a laugh. People who know me know I work very hard to stop unnecessary spending, and my only "pet" project is good government, which I will continue to promote when necessary. I have openly opposed more taxes when they were incorect and promoted those I felt would help the county -- not me or my financial future.
But you the your male alter egos can continue to snipe. It doesn't bother me other than the time you take away from reasonable discussions out of which just might come a good idea that could help in what I thought was out quest for good government. As for the weekend in Maryland, it is a pretty state for her to visit. --pwf
"What do I think of consolidation of government services . . ."
Oh, what a topic. In my old days of writing a daily newspaper column, I oft times suggested that economies could be served up without any decline in services. Only in government is it not done easily.
Usually, it is the cities that protest and try to block consolidation, yet it is the cities that are being squeezed by revenue problems. Ocala will never be able to provide the services to the areas they have annexed other than to raise taxes on their citizens.
While milage rates in the county have declined by something like 20% (I haven't figured it exactly, but they are down from about 6.3 mills to 4.7 mills), city tax rates have gone UP (and I dont have that in front of me either).
The county has MSTU "taxes" to force non city residents to pay for municipal type services. The city is now doing the same thing, what with the storm water tax, the new fire tax, et cetera.
I like living in the city. But I would like to see more consolidation. We have consolidated the city courts into the county courts; the city jail into the county jail; city tax assessors and tax collectors into the county tax assessors and collectors, dispatch units, the city operated library system into an expanded countywide system that is providing more services than before, and we could consolidate other things.
Parks would be the easiest to do, but it would take some doing since the city has a $6 or $7 million budget, and the county about a $2 million budget. Much of the city operation is funded by enterprise sources (fees) but it makes sense since the residents of the city are also residents of the county and now pay twice for parks.
And while I do not personally use any of the city or county parks, I am a strong proponent of a good, efficient, solid park department. The progress made at the County uner Lee Niblock's direction shows what can be done when you have good direction. (In full disclosure, yes, I consider him a friend and have been known to have lunch with him occasionally, so you can beat up on me for that too.) I also know Dave Pritchard and have been working to provide additional land for the city park department and our children to use.
So let's have a good solid discussion about parks and what might come from some consolidated efforts. And a big thank you to Charlie Stone for having the courage to bring the matter up. --pwf
The county taxpayers are the ones most likley to get screwed if the county were to take over the Ocala City parks. The county would get a high cost operation much of which would be of little use to many county taxpayers. Good for the City not good for the county. Someone would have to do a lot of convincing to have me buy this one.
OK, Night Owl you were right. We needed two BIG wins to get a shot at the National Championship. Not going to make it.
Looks like we have to win in the SEC Championship game and then settle for a bowl game with Louisville. Ugh!!
Wait until some study group sees all of the capital and maintenance needs the city parks are going to be facing. That may change directions on whether it makes sense for the county to get involved. Anyone want to buy a dead horse?
You are right. There would need to be a study group of citizens to look at the situation before any plan could go to the commission and council. There is a lot of maintainance that would be (and currently is) necessary on city properties.
BUT, remember that city taxpayers are county taxpayers, and there arte studies that show that a very large percentage of users of city parks and recreational facilities are in fact county residents (living outside the city limits) and do not contribute to maintenance and or operational costs (other than through fees which might be charged).
County taxes of some kind would go up to take over the operation of city parks. This information would be developed during such a study. --pwf
The Road Tax Task Force, instuted abouty seven years ago, is an example of what you refer to - - - it was the Committee from Hell. Well intentioned, it came out of the local government committee of the Chamber after the sales tax for roads had failed the first time. The Chamber committee felt if a citizens committee examined the issue, the public might better understand the needs.
The plan was to have each commissioner select the peoeple from their own area, and the fifteen would then work through the county budget and find if there were ways to save money and spend that on roads.
The members were Bill Glass, John Lund, Pat Strait, Chuck Pardee (chairman) Jan Cameron, Patricia Huml, Bob Taylor, and others I can not recall at this time.
It became a shouting match at times, and sincere efforts to develop ways to finance roads went by the way side as John Lund found numerous things he would chop from the budget, Bill Glass found he didn't like any government workers, and tossed their work product toward the trash can.
Several suggestions were developed that were implemented over the next couple of years, and about $5 million was lopped off the budget by eliminating waste in parks, computers, and other areas. All of that has now been eaten up and the budget is about double what it was then.
The problem with PPI is it does not have a reputation for looking at issues other than from a tax and spend viewpoint. Some of their works have been a joke; others worthwhile.
The old Charter Commission finally worked through all of the ultra right wing stuff, and came up with a workable document, but it was defeated as all the elected officials and their minions worked against it.
Any study committee will have a tough time selling a product, but I hope there is one appointed and they do look at areas that can be consolitdated. --pwf
WITH THE COMPOSITION OF THAT COMMITTEE, IT SURE HAD THE RIGHT NAME!
amen!
Gee, isn’t a big discussion on consolidation going to an awful lot of trouble to divert attention from Ferguson’s failure to back up his claims on how many political races he’s supposedly had and his supposed winning percentage. Where are the names of his winners and losers? Is he still checking to see which “winners” are dead so he can claim, with no argument from them, that he ran their campaigns?
Government consolidations have a poor record of producing promised cost savings. Leave it to Ferguson to focus his comments for consolidation on the weakest argument for it.
There he goes again with that millage rate stuff. Doesn’t he know that voters are hip to that bull now? Doesn’t he know that Harris and the County published those millage rate graphs all over the place during the election and that Harris lost anyway because people realize it’s nothing but an insult to their intelligence? Doesn’t he realize that people are interested in what the government is demanding from them for what they’re getting from the government, and they aren’t interested in a bunch of flimflam about how it’s calculated or whether the government calls its demand a tax or an assessment? I’m concerned that Ferguson has sent so much of this malarkey out over the years for his clients that he now believes it.
A couple of years ago, in a moment of candor not in an election year, Kesselring remarked on WOCA that Marion County is not a low tax county. Gee, why is Ferguson trying to convince us that it is? Answer: He’s had it in for the Ocala City Council for years so he’s putting a lot of lipstick on the county commission pig.
Somewhere in the past year (maybe here, I can’t remember) I heard that Harris would run for Supervisor of Elections. I’ve heard this from a media person since Harris lost. I also heard it at Thanksgiving from my relative who I think correctly pegged about 7 years ago Harris’ interest in going to Congress. I have no idea if Harris is foolish enough to think he can beat Dee Brown or expects her to retire soon.
THIS IS DAY 2 OF PAUL FERGUSON’S FAILURE TO MEET MY CHALLENGE TO PRODUCE EVIDENCE BACKING UP THE MARKETING CLAIMS HE MAKES FOR HIS POLITICAL CONSULTING “BUSINESS.”
Interesting thought about Harris. I believe he could beat Dee Brown. She's been there too long.
I prefer discussing consolidation over a pissing match between PWF and Creekbaum over some trivial issue.
I'm with Al!
"Want 12 More"
The 12-year career of Marion County Commissioner Randy Harris was terminated by Marion County voters who, by a small margin, elected Democrat Barbara Fitos in his stead.
Along with a consistent effort to save money for the taxpayers of Marion County, Harris birthed and nurtured the popular Choose Life license plates, made a valiant effort to clean up our library, and stood as a pillar of righteousness for his entire career.
His ship listed badly during the recent highly publicized suggestion that sex offenders be shipped to Mexican jails; an idea that must have seemed barbaric to some of his supporters.
Our politics have a lot in common with our churches: both are peopled with supporters of the tranquility of moral entropy over the sharp rebuke of the biblical narrative. The media strongly resist immutable standards of righteousness, and when public figures attempt to return the nation to decency they are mercilessly upbraided.
Americans prefer a lenient peace to a confrontational morality and the disruptive nature of support for ethics and morals is trumped by the wicked desire to "just get along." As the juggernaut of humanism rolls over America, free speech will no longer be allowed and morality will be dictated by those in the seats of power.
Questioning the Holocaust and preaching against homosexuality is already illegal in some nations. God's immutable legal structure is being replaced with a new enlightened system devised by the anarchic minds of reprobate men and administered by a powerful elite.
Randy Harris lasted a long time under the adversity of Ocala's humanist champions. It was a good run. I wish it could be repeated.
Al Cronkrite
Ocala
Anon 7:17: I needed to go back and read the preceeding week of posts but I disagree.
Paul has been heavily invovled in Marion County's political scene for decades. Paul has made more than his fair share of claims to fame but rarely proves his claims or demonstrates his level of effectivness. He sedlom displays any candor in his mistakes and derides anyone who crosses him. He loves a political pissing match.
If Paul shares his personal characteristics and political beliefs with his clients positions, then we have a individual that has directly effected our local government.
One has to ask: Is Paul Fergusons political positions what we want?
Will we continue to allow such individuals to drive our local politics?
Do we really want (or need) what Paul and his clients have delivered to us over the past few decades? Can we afford it anymore?
Here's a bet: Paul will reply to this post with indignation and contempt. He will attack me directly and not my comments.
agreed; what is this obcession he has for dissing anybody who disagrees with his ideas. seems like ferguson has been on right side of lot of issues including library so whats his problem. at lease ferguson is willing to take stands more than single issue like bc.
last post applies to anonymously at 7:17 AM, November 28, 2006
not thorrow who also seeks a pissing match as he calls it
I find it extremely amusing how a few of you people have focused your attack on PWF like he is some sort of political icon. He is and always will be influential and controversial in this community. If that bothers you, so be it. It ain’t going to change anytime soon.
What is really amusing is that there are four or five other people who work actively behind the scenes, out of public limelight, and exert great political influence--probably even beyond that of PWF. I have never seen their names, except one, mentioned on the Blog.
I’m sure they don’t mind all the attention that PWF receives. Takes the heat off of them and let’s them go about their activities with nil scrutiny. Maybe old PWF has engaged in some sort of political-diversion conspiracy with them to keep you all off guard! It wouldn't surprise me.
I think what Christopher and Brian are both saying makes good sense. Think about it, Roger Austin has gotten people elected here and we can figure he will continue to do so. Austin does not get personally involved with our elections like Mr. Ferguson does. If Mr. Ferguson has gotten so many people elected he should carry some of the trash that they have created. My thinking is anything less would be hypocritical.
Observer: They have not been talked about here because they have not been here!
If they do drop by they should beware they will be subject to the same public scrutiny we all enjoy here.
I for one would welcome all of them, whoever they may be!
Christopher,
We would bet "THEY" have been here, and return from time to time!
Agreed!
I wish Observer would share with us who "they" are.
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary, agent. Enough with the "gotcha" stuff. This blog is about discussing the politics and policy of the day - that's why I visit this blog at least once a day - its a great source of local information and commentary.
I think the fate of the local Dems will depend on who their next leader is. The troops are really fired up, so its now a question of leadership and using this excitement towards positive, constructive change.
Picked this up on another blog concerning the National Political scene. I think it is right on target with how things will play out in D.C. over the next two years:
“Governing in the majority is altogether different than being the boisterous minority party. I predict it takes this GOP minority a couple of years to get it going, but will be fine when they do. A lot of it has to do with leadership. Boehner was sub par as majority leader, so maybe he'll kick it up a notch as minority leader. Flamethrowers excel in the minority party. Pithy quotes on FOX News and gimmicks to slam the majority require a totally different skill set than organizing leadership and moving the house. In a way, it will be nice to take a two-year break from being the lightning rod for leadership mistakes and have some fun with the Democrats and their three-ring circus.”
So "People Power", any good work (if it happens) at the local level may get wiped out by the Dem leaders in Washington. We’ll all see.
I hear your point, anonymous, but the national environment was pretty sour for Democrats in 2002 and 2004, yet Dem County Commission Candidates have been scoring at 45% or greater. Voters here seem to draw clear distinctions between their local Dem candidates and national Dem candidates. Even state Dem candidates are looked at differently. While Ms. Fitos and Ms. Weesner received 51% and 49% respectively, Mr. Walker and Mr. Thurman both received 44% of the vote. Mr. Bruderly, Mr. Russell, and Mr. Stuart received only 42%, 42%, and 43% respectively.
I don't want to completely disagree with your point, anonymous, because national Dems can certainly make the local environment tougher - but it certainly won't make the possibility of more Democrat County Commissioners completely out of reach - particularly if the candidates are well-qualified women.
I am sure there are more than what I see around Marion County but could you one of the Randy Harris
cheerleaders on this blog, get in
their pick-up truck tommorrow
morning, drive north on US HWY 441,
and start taking down his oversized (!!) campaign signs off
our highways!
Private property or right-of-way,
it's all tacky!
The election is over and campaigning 24/7 is just desperate!
Maybe he start how own church and
sell it to the masses that way?
Feel free to remove my post blogmaster.
KEEP AMERICA BEAUTIFUL
love ya
Harris is probably just going to leave the big signs up until 2008 and then paste new signs on them when he runs for Supervisor of Elections.
Who knows how tough she may be to beat. We heard the same about Harris and he got slammed. I think a good campaign will take her out! She's just too much old style and we need new thinking in that office. Whether or not it's Harris is yet to be seen. I know there are other Republicans who might step up.
Respect your point of view People Power. But remember, as pointed out by Agent, the poor national showing by Reps. may have picked up 5% or so for state and local Dems. What goes around COULD come around. As I said, we’ll all have to see. Not sure Nancy Pelosi is off to such a good start as a leader, she seems to be flip flopping a bit.
Ok in response to several posts here is a rundown of my ideas and opinions on local topics:
1) Roads. Complete a loop around the Ocala metropolitan area. Pay for it with tolls.
2)Growth. Decrease impact fees on new business facilities. Increase impact fees on residential construction. Deny any new requests for medium or high density residential development.
3)Taxes. Property taxes should be lowered locally and the state statutes should be re-written for second properties owned by individuals. The tax on these secondary properties should not be able to be increased by more than 10% in any one year.
4) Economic Development. Take monies that are currently being utilized for ecodev and use it to attract a commercial air carrier to Ocala Airport.
Harris for elections supervisor. That’s a good one!! If you want to see him really put the nail in his coffin to his political career, then he should run. Not beating Dee Brown would end all hope he could ever have of advancing his political fortunes. Never would he be a candidate for congress, which some say is his goal, if he couldn’t even win as elections supervisor. Guess he could run for county dog catcher, if he lost to Dee. Is that an elected position? Doubt we are ever going to see Harris as elections supervisor. However, stranger things have happened around here.
Christopher,
What do you think that Loop is going to cost?
A fortune beyond all reason!
The sooner we get it done the cheaper it will be. We've been left with a huge mess created over the last six decades. Lets fix it.
How about $1 million to $1.5 million per mile! And that's probably on the low side.
If you have to buy right-of-way count on just over $6 million per mile in today's dollars. That's what the road tax figures show. That's about as smart of an idea as the $100,000,000++ to build a new train corridor down the East side of Ocala.
Chris glad to see you're still uninformed and a big "tax and spender."
Better to build now and let the tolls help pay the way.
Question: Do we need the roads?
Yes
Question: Have any of our predecessors ever faced the problem?
No
Question: Is it responsible to allow the problem to festor?
No
Fine. Call me tax and spend but it's time we face the grim reality of getting the job done.
Let's see, at 6 million a mile and dividing the project up into four quadrants you can figure phase one will cost between 20-40 million. That's if each segment is around 4-5 miles. Big dollars? Yup. Big responsibilty. Yup
Anoymous 6:26 sounds a lot like a Paul Ferguson post to me
It's not PWF, cause he told me $2.5 million per mile.
I think it was Pee Wee Herman.
So CT should make support of the "loop" a key part of his next campaign for County Commissioner. That would almost guarantee him another loss. Sound like a plan to me!
Looks like anonymous might be worried about Thurow getting into office. Wonder why?
Not worried at all. It's just that the man has some loopy ideas!
To all of our "So Brave and So Outspoken" Anonymous posters.
Without signing your name you frame yourself as spineless. Which many are.
While all of this is nothing more than thinking out loud regarding any road improvements the discussion should be made.
Paul, the concept of a loop in todays political relm would be wildly different from past models, scope and location.
You are absolutely right in every comment you made about citizens, history and costs. It would seem almost insurmountable, but maybe not. When I have more time to write I'll pass on to you my ideas.
Could be the reason you don't get more votes when you run is that you have many good ideas, but aren't able to explain to voters how to implement them.
I have voted for too many politicians who have thAT as their modus operandi and will not vote for any more of them. So give us your outline of how to pay for and implement the loop and you might just get my support. By the way, I did vote for you when you ran for Commissioner. Gave you the benefit of the doubt once....but will not again.
P.S.: Will "not again" unless you show me the money and way.
I agree with pwf, the time for a beltway has come and gone.
However, I think we're looking at this problem the wrong way. Truthfully, our focus need not necessarily be more roads, but improving existing ones and starting the process of taking cars off the road.
Yes, I talking about investing in mass transit. This is tougher than just asking to extend or expand a road - and it couldn't or shouldn't involve just the County Commission. Mass transit is a collaborative project between all three levels of government. Its not completely out of reach, either. The Portland area in Oregon, San Francisco, and Northern Virginia have built or are building incredible mass transit systems which have reduced traffic and restored communities and overall quality of life.
In regards to Mr. Thurow's second point, simply denying any medium or high residential development would be a bad move. I would deny these higher density developments in exurban areas outside of our urban cores. However, I would definitely support higher density development within existing urban areas.
I understand the fear behind higher density development is that it puts more cars on the road. This is true if you have virtually no mass transit system (which, granted, is the current case for Ocala/Marion County.)
You can further reduce the problem of more cars as a result of higher density development, by following the lead of the three areas I mentioned previously and develop Transit Oriented Developments (TODs), where higher density, multi-land use development surrounds a mass transit stop.
I could go on and on here.
One more question, what would a commercial air carrier do for Ocala? What do current economic development funds go to? These are questions which can be answered by anybody.
I agree on the higher densities inside the urban areas. I'll answer the airport question later on. For now a quick reply to the mass transit topic.
There are just two problems with mass transit. Nobody uses it, and it costs tons. Only 4% of Americans take public transportation to work. Even in cities they don't do it. Less than 25% of commuters in the New York metropolitan area use public transportation. Elsewhere it's far less--9.5% in San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, 1.8% in Dallas-Fort Worth.
As for total travel in urban parts of America--all the comings and goings for work, school, shopping, etc.--1.7 % of those trips are made on mass transit.
Then there is the cost, federal funding--$52 billion. Less obviously, there's all the money spent locally keeping local mass transit systems operating. The Heritage Foundation says, "There isn't a single light rail transit system in America in which fares paid by the passengers cover the cost of their own rides." Heritage cites the Minneapolis "Hiawatha" light rail line, soon to be completed with $107 million from the transportation bill. Heritage estimates that the total expense for each ride on the Hiawatha will be $19. Commuting to work will cost $8,550 a year. If the commuter is earning minimum wage, this leaves about $1,000 a year for food, shelter and clothing. Or, if the city picks up the tab, it could have leased a BMW X-5 SUV for the commuter at about the same price.
But that's just my opinion.
Mr. Thurow, I'm not that big a fan of Heritage, as they like to cherry pick their data to serve an ideology (not to mention the fact that the highway lobby is incredibly powerful.) I know for a fact that around half of metropolitan New Yorkers use mass transit (source: When Cities and Counties Collide: Managing Growth in the Metropolitan Fringe by Tom Daniels.) Of course, New York is a very unique case, its one of the densest (if not THE densest) cities in America.
Obviously, as I alluded to earlier, if we set our focus on reducing the number of cars on the road, it would require a radical departure from our current policy of low-density sprawl which costs more than the taxes incurred and thus in turn sends our property taxes soaring.
I just don't think a big ring of asphalt around Ocala will do much to solve this problem.
I agree that traffic suck; people drive too fast as if their time is
more important than mine.
Slow down, stop being rude and go with the flow ...
I did not see that Star Banner article. Maybe someone can post the link. There are a number of temporary flys-in-the-ointment currently.
Congress has not yet passed federal funding for highway projects around the country this fiscal year. That means a number projects in Florida have stalled.Congress has not passed the Transportation Appropriations Act for fiscal 2007, which began October First, but passed a continuing resolution that provides limited funding. We'll wait and see on this one.
State wide any diversion of state revenues presently dedicated to transportation-related purposes could limit the FDOT's ability to finance and deliver projetcs. Also, the following circumstances, which are beyond the control of the FDOT may influence higway program:
Changes in federal or state revenue estimates, Changes in bond market conditions, Changing federal regulations, Difficulty in acquiring right of way, Ecological and environmental factors, Extraordinary increases in right of way costs, Unanticipated contract litigation, Other economic forces impacting state transportation revenuesand. Changes in MPO/Local priorities
I propose that we create a Politically Homeless Ocala Beltway Task Force, meet with a set of maps, go eight to ten miles from the center of Ocala (just a starting point) and draw a circle around Ocala, and we establish the proposed route.
The first public hearing by the Task Force will be for the WESTERN part of the loop.
I'll see if I can arrange to use the county commission meeting room. Someone else can arrange for law enforcement for crowd control. Perhpas Sue Mosley can arrange to have the public hearing televised by the schools as a public service.
The Western half of the Beltway would put the 200 foot right of way north almost to the slingshot on 441, and it would disect probably 200 of our horse farms in the northwest quadrant, then cut through the middle of OTOW and Oak Run maybe hit Country Club of Ocala and dozens of boutique horse farms in the southwest quadrant cut across just north of Belleview.
Someone else will have to facilitate -- I wont be there. The facilitator can then introduce the father of the beltway plan, Mr. Christopher Thurrow, who will explain how we need to stop this NIMBY attitude (not in my back yard, for those in Rio Linda) of opposing things just because they create a problem for our parochial self interests, rather looking for the better good of the community, and get busy and and solve the traffic problems by building the Beltway. He can explain that Marion County needs this beltway, and we simply need to mortgage the future of our grandhcildren's grandhcildren and forget the fact we dont want a super highway cutting through our neighborhood, or that it would solve concurrency problems and open up new vast areas for more development. Some of those little old ladies in tennis shoes who helped him kill off WalMart and the $13 or so an hour jobs will have them off beating him about the head.
Christopher and John Lund and Randy Harris can debate the $500 million to $1 billion bond issue that will be required, calling each other names.
I will be home watching on TV, having tuned in to watch the local edition of WWE World Wrestling Entertainment. It will be more interesting to watch the crowd shout this down than watching pro wrestling and watch the cops escort Christopher through his former friends.
--pwf
Finally some political satire from Paul that I can appreciate! Well done!
Satire?????
I am dead serious.
Let's get a task force and watch what happens.
--pwf
Blogmaster . . .
I have a call in to the county to see if we can use the county auditorium for this public service Politically Homeless Beltway Task Force meeting.
I will call Sue Mosley to see if she can arrange for the school TV people to televise the public hearing live.
Do you have a date available that I can give the county and Sue. Also you will need to work up the process that will be used.
Hopefully, we will not save Sue Carr covering it so we none of us will get indicted for talking on the blog.
And I guess it will be up to the Blogmaster to name the participants. Keep us posted on your progress in getting this set up. This might even attract FOX and CNN. (the sporting aspects of seeing grtown participants flogged for suggesting a road through their neighborhood might even attract Gordon Smith and his WMOP Sports station.) --pwf
ferg, you mite even get miss slim or is it slime to match up one on one with brian baby! i'll even put my stripes bCK on and refereee that one!
c'mon pwf, there was a discussion going on here until you started bashing again, give it a break.
Mr. Ferguson:
We do not have a death wish for the Blog! Would like to keep blogging for at least one more year. Therefore, at the present time, we are going to “bypass” sponsoring the Politically Homeless: Beltway Public Forum you have proposed.
We discovered how difficult it would be to even get a facilitator. We called eight people (including four close friends) who we thought could facilitate the Forum. After explaining what we wanted them to do, they all hung up. That was definitely not a good sign!
Suggest we put the Forum on hold until we all have had more time to discuss and digest the Beltway idea on the Blog. Good ideas are sometimes initially laughed at, but who knows what might come of them.
Christopher, don’t give up, keep convincing us!
Other ideas welcome from all. Keep an open mind.
I sure don't have any answers to our roads problems but would like to here any ideas, crazy sounding or not. Want to get elected to office, bring forward a solution to the roads problem.It has passed me by.
Politico, the answer to the road problem is very simple. If we WANT the roads we obviously NEED, someone will have to pay for them.
The gas tax is not enough, BUT had we imposed the extra five cent gas tax (allowed by law with a four- fifths vote of the county commission -- voter approval not required) eight years ago, we would have about 30-40 percent of the shortfall covered. Without it, the problem gets "worserer" not better.
Coupled with extrea impact fees, that would probably take care of somethiung like 50% of the "need".
We would likely save on retiremenmt in the long run because the crop of commisioners who impose that tax will likely not get another term in office so we save their state retirement costs.
Sooner or later, smeone is going to have to step up to the plate and impose the taxes it will take to at least build our "needs". Forget our "wants'.
Solution to the rest? Increased impact fees to handle the "capacity" improvements. Will it happen. Probably not, and the next generation of politically homeless will debate the issue in another ten years. --pwf
Mr. Blogmaster, I was severely depresssed by your decision not to stage the Politically Homeless Road Task Force Public Hearing. I do understand, what with seven or eight potential facilitators turning it down. Maybe you could get "Anonymous" to facilitate behind a screen to protect their identity.
Oh, well, another brillant idea gone by the window. I'll let you know the next one. --pwf
I thought Brad Rogers column on Steve Hering this morning was a article that should have been writtens several months ago.
The attack on Steve by Kurt Kelly was totally unjutified and uncalled for. To complicate his attack more, his opposition to Steve has religious overtones, since, as Mr. Kelly pointed out, Mr. Hering is a Jew.
Mr. Kelly was repudiated somewhat when voters rejected his hand picked candidate to oppose Sue Mosley. That candidate had used Sue's vote in favor of Hering as one of the principal cogs in his campaign.
Having said this, I support Rogers conclusion that I would not as a Board member do business with the school board, and I would support that rule at all levels of government.
Compliments to Mr. Rogers; he doesn't get many so let's give them to him when deserved.--pwf
Rogers has a good suggestion. I would go a step further and say that no School Board member can have a spouse working in the District. That would really get at conflict of interest and favoritism.
During the primary, I believe I saw something about Kurt Kelly having some sort of background check business for school employees. Does he do any business with the Marion school system?
They couldn't do that. I think you would cause Kelly's wife to have to quit!
Go Gators!
CRUSH THE BUCKEYES!!!!
Kurt may be thinking about running for State Senate. Kurt lives in District 3 (Argenziano.) Argenziano is retiring due to term limits. The district covers Citrus County as well as a ton of North Florida and Gulf Coast counties (I think.)
Seems like a stupid thing for Kurt to do, though. Then again, stupid moves and Kurt Kelly seem to go together all too often.
kelly is boxed in>>> his involvement in anti law enforcement cases involving rich kids and athletes will come back to haunt him. cops I know will delight in causing him trouble. also, there will be lots of people who havent insulted catholics and jews who will run and he cant pray out of his problems>>>
pwf said:
“To complicate his attack more, his opposition to Steve has religious overtones, since, as Mr. Kelly pointed out, Mr. Hering is a Jew.”
anonymous said:
“…there will be lots of people who havent insulted catholics and jews who will run…”
These are certainly serious allegations concerning Kurt Kelly, who is a sitting elected public official in Marion County. It will be interesting to see if Kelly’s accusers produce evidence commensurate with the seriousness of their charges. What exactly was said where and to whom? What was the context? Much we need to know is missing from the above comments.
There have been cases where “citizen journalism” on the internet has developed sufficient information to result in coverage of things missed by traditional news media, but so far I don’t see that here. Will such information come forward here? We’ll soon see.
you seem to have a lot of time on ur hands. call kelly and ask him point blank then ask the people he said it to if he said it. school people seem to think he said it.
There shouldn’t be a need for me or anyone else to investigate elsewhere right now since we have a named blogger who implies by his accusation that he already has the facts. You can bet that no respectable former journalist would make such a serious charge without having solid evidence. Let’s see that solid evidence. I’m looking forward to hearing that evidence from the accuser. I wouldn’t dream of infringing on his opportunity to produce the goods right here on the blog right now.
If there is something here that is newsworthy, I would certainly like to see it reported by the news media and work to see that happen, but first we need the accuser to produce his evidence. What exactly did Kelly say? What are the names of the people to whom he said it? These are just two questions the accusing blogger should answer.
Maybe the nick name Ocala Slim gave Puffer is very fitting. Think about it.
Fitting???? Are you kidding???
Its picture perfect!!! Phat Baby!! Very Phat!!!
Fitting???? Are you kidding???
Its picture perfect!!! Phat Baby!! Very Phat!!!
Kurt Kelly is one of the most honest and decent people in Marion County. I am glad that there are people on this blog like Mr. Creekbaum who are willing to challenge all of those who don't like Kurt.
Kurt is one of the most influential School Board members this County has ever had. He will stand up to anyone who threatens our churches moral standards and our political ethics. He will always do what is right.
He has adopted Dennis Baxley as an excellent role model and like Dennis is a lightening rod when it comes to taking a stand on moral issues.
Thank you Mr. Creekbaum for being able to see through all the puffery about Kurt and coming to his defense.
I can’t defend or accuse Kurt on this matter because I don’t have the facts. What I can defend is the idea that people like me without the facts shouldn’t jump to conclusions. I’m waiting to hear what serious evidence the accusing blogger has to support his serious accusation.
Thank you, thank you to those who are supporting Kurt. He's a fine man and doesn't deserve all of the bashing he has been getting.
I agree with the comment that he and Mr. Baxley are much alike in their beliefs and that's why they are attacked. The truth hurts many people and they are both right more often than not on taking a stand on issues. With Mr. Harris gone, we need more polticians like both of them to be sure Christian values are not overlooked.
Love truly is blind. The only thing Kurt is good at is abuse of power. He covers this up by standing in a pulpit and talking about morality. Pathetic. He is absolutely pathetic.
His political power is on the downslide and for that can I get an Amen?
I'll give you an Amen.
Anyone who thinks the newspaper is going to write anything too negative about K. Kelly, please send me some of what you're smoking...it must be good.
It’s interesting to read on the blog about the liberals at the Star-Banner from one blogger while we read from another blogger that the Star-Banner news operation supposedly protects a Christian conservative school board member.
There are multiple news media outlets covering Marion County, including several based in adjacent counties, that would jump at the opportunity to report on a Baptist school board member in Marion County attacking a fellow school board member because he is Jewish as Paul W. Ferguson, Sr. has alleged Kurt Kelly has done.
In order for the reporting to happen, however, Ferguson needs to come forward with evidence underlying his allegation. I’m sure the fact that more than two days have elapsed since he published his serious allegation to the blog owes to his desire to carefully recheck his facts before reporting them to us and that he will get back to us very shortly with a full account.
If it is, then you and Mr. Creekbaum better stay off the Blog. PWF may have something against both of you.
About the Kelly situation, "frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn". Take your personal campaign against PWF somewhere else.
Have you all noticed how B. Creekbaum is constantly challenging old PWF on issues. However, BC won’t accept Bobby D’s challenge to go on his talk show. BC just ignores Bobby D. Could it be that he is afraid of matching wits with Bobby?
My suggestion to PWF, for what it’s worth: you should treat B. Creekbaum the way BC treats Bobby D...just ignore him.
Heard sometime ago that KK confirmed to Father Pat and to Bobby D he made the catholic comment, so i figure ole ferg has it right. BC has a one track mind and once ferg crossed him months back he has thrown arrows.
Lutes & Creekbaum
Why don’t you both go work on getting the book “Conversations with God” placed in our county library? Or if it is already in the library, work on getting it removed. Now that would be productive! Would also keep your minds occupied, which you both may need to do.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 3:51 PM, April 02, 2006, pwf said:
“Kids come out of college with a J-degree thinking they can make their mark by bringing some politican down. My experience was that you just write what you can prove and everything will fall into place.”
At 2:20 PM, December 03, 2006, pwf said:
“The attack on Steve by Kurt Kelly was totally unjutified [sic] and uncalled for. To complicate his attack more, his opposition to Steve has religious overtones, since, as Mr. Kelly pointed out, Mr. Hering is a Jew.”
So, where's the proof?
Thanks again, Mr. Creekbaum. Kurt Kelly needs more fine people like you on his team. We will overcome these non-believers.
Having Brian Creekbaum on Kurt's "team" is just great news!
Frankly, the “we will overcome these non-believers” business sounds about as forced and phony as last year’s “homosexual” who posted, to the best of my recollection, that “there is nothing wrong with being a homosexual.” Perpetrators of these adolescent blog pranks demonstrate little more than their inability to accurately assess the intelligence of others. Try toilet papering your house the next time you feel the need to get it out of your system.
I don’t know who Kurt Kelly needs on his team, but I’m not available for it. I've never voted for Baxley, and I doubt I would vote for Kelly to replace him.
I would like to know the facts underlying the allegation against him. Anyone who has them has a forum here to make them available to the rest of us, but it seems so far we have comments of every kind except anything that would shed further light on the facts.
This morning Lutes said:
"Haven't the courts found internet gossip libelous?"
I couldn't agree more and Randy Harris should take a look at the comments made here against him.
Lutes, you weren't among them were you? How about you Creekbaum?
I always heard Randy didn’t use computers much beyond what was required to function as a county commissioner, but if someone would like to print off a copy of the blog election comments for him, I’d be happy to sign mine.
We have so many attempted diversions from hearing about what Kelly actually said, where, and to whom that it makes me think some people are afraid of the truth, whatever it may be.
No it's not an issue of truth. What people are growing sick of is your same old boring shit! Get a life, do something more important than spewing hate for PWF from your damn computer. I have already enough information about Kelly to form my own opinions. Don't need anymore from you or PWF. So get off of the blog if this constant bickering with PWF is all you have to offer...and it seems it is.
I also agree. Hope Bobby Creekbaum will take note.
Don
(OTOW)
Sorry, I meant Brian not Bobby.
Agent,
Excellent question. Bloggers note we have established a new thread on this important issue.
Tax revenues, jobs, school enrollments, etc. are all potentially impacted by any downturn in the housing market.
Check out the new thread on the subject.
Lutes,
If you don't like what is said on the Blog, then don't post comments. We got along fine without you for a long time and will continue to if you leave. Start your own blog if you don't like the fact some people don't won't to deal with your "superior intelligence" and "superior knowledge" on every subject.
Maybe you should just stick to issues of porno in our library. You are a major part of politics as usual. Your know it all attitude is what's wrong with our system. You are a good example of the "Bush Syndrome", but with a left leaning tilt.
I suggest you and Creekbaum start your own blog for the intellectually elite in our community. You two are just too smart for the rest of us. I'm sure you are both also moneyed people who have used your vast intelligence to create great wealth. So establshing a communication source (radio, TV, etc.) to get your message out should be no financial problem to you.
Go to it. I might even post a comment or two on your blog. I'm sure you can find many of the elites who might join you, and then you might not!
Frankly, I'm just too dumb and uneducated to relate to your type. Sorry I wasn't born with the great advantage of mind power that you like to demonstrate.
Lutes---
Tell us more about the blogmaster and "his" family. You seem to have some information that many of us don't have. I'm impressed! Share it with us, would be nice to see how good your facts are, since you have been challenging old PWF on his facts. Then again, if you are wrong you set yourself up for a challenge to your vast intelligence.
In reference to the purpose of the PH Blog, Lutes said: “The negatively critical statements and personal attacks by the blogmaster, his family and cronies indicate another purpose.”
First of all, I wouldn’t know Lutes if he/she walked into my work cubicle. Therefore, direct personal knowledge of my family and my “cronies” is not likely. Second, I would like Lutes to give us the facts on where I (the Blog Master) have personally attacked anyone on this Blog and the same for members of my family. I’m not sure who is defined as my cronies, so I won’t ask for facts on their personal attacks. I’m asking of Lutes exactly what he/she is seeking from one of our bloggers: just give us the facts.
My role is to stay out of taking a personal position and serve as the center point for keeping relevant items/issues posted and being discussed on the Blog. My points of view are not that important, those of the many people using the Blog are what count most. I have at times cringed at some of the comments that are made here. However, it is not my place in life to judge. If people don’t like what is written on the PH Blog, then they shouldn’t come here and surf the comments. I have often heard the same said about other media. If you don’t like certain books, then don’t’ read them. If you don’t like a TV program, then turn it off.
I’m offended by the inference that Creekbaum and Lutes are some sort of super brains compared to others on the blog. I'm sure there are many people who post comments whose IQ and common sense would make both of these individuals look like blooming idiots. This whole intelligence discussion is ridiculous.
I’m not well educated, but I won’t take a backseat to those who are. So don’t try to make out that the opinions of academically endowed people should be given some special privilege. I don’t know if either of the individuals mentioned even have an education, and don’t care. But obviously someone on the blog thinks they do.
Lunch break (late) is over. Now back to earning a living. I have a family to support.
Best comment on here today!
Education and being smart do not always go together. Sometimes that is apparent from the comments we see on the Blog.
Maybe Lutees and Brian Creekbaum are not politically homeless and that’s why they (Lutees most recently) are critical of the homeless blog and some of its bloggers. Seems to me they both already have pretty politically established points of view on issues: they know exactly where the homeless bloggers should stand on every issue we comment on. Problem is some bloggers just don’t stand with them. There are bloggers who don’t agree with them and they don’t agree with those bloggers, and neither side is willing to move from its position of “we are correct”. I’ll keep listening to what the Lutees/Creekbaum duo has to say, but seems to me they already know the (only) answer they want to hear: PWF is wrong and WE are right. Frankly, it really doesn’t matter to me either way and probably not to anyone else.
Blogman; why do you put up with the junk accusing you of attacks and all that other stuff? You own the blog and you can do whatever you want. I would remove the comments from all these whiners. The newspapers don’t publish every letter to the editor they get, you don’t have to let all the comments on your blog either.
knowing both lutes and bc, they aren't the smartest people around. both just know how to stir up trouble. they are the pat straits of the left and make about as much sense. By the way, notice how good the library is run without the LAB, which was largly a forum for malcontents -- both left and right.
Comparing them to Pat Strait may be a bit of a stretch, but understand where you are coming from about them.
I understand that Bruce Seaman is taking over the chairmanship of the Marion DEC from Marjorie Renfroe. I wonder what’s going on with the chairmanship of the Marion REC.
Good question. I'll call someone who is on the REC and find out. Last I heard another R. Harris type was in line to take over.
They have not yet voted. Harris may jump back in. Said he wasn't going to run but may be back in the race. More to come.
THEY HAVE VOTED -- AT LEASE IN PART. PAUL TRUESDALE WAS READY TO BUY THE CHAIRMANSHIP AND CHRIS BOYD THE VICE CHAIRMANSHIP, BUT PAUL AND HIS WIFE WERE VOTED DOWN FOR MEMBERSHIP ON THE REC. CHRIS BOYD WITHDREW HIS APPLICATION TO JOIN REC AFTER TRUESDALE WENT DOWN IN FLAMES. ROY ABSHIRE MAY BE COMEING BACK AS CHAIRMAN.
Understand Angie Boynton and one of the youngsters from the Young Republican Club are also in the running. Is the local Rep. Party ready for an African-American female? Doubt it.
So what happened that Truesdell didn't get in? Is he not a "good" Republican? I thought he and Boyd were the new direction for our local party. Interesting development!
THE PLAN WAS GET TRUESDALE AND BOYD IN AND THEN TRUESDALE WUD RUN FOR SHERIFF AS AN EX TAMPA COP. TRUESDALE HAS OFFENDED MANY GOP WITH HIS ABRASIVE ATTITUDE -- MORE ABRASIVE THAN HARRIS. U GO FIGURE!!!
If P. Truesdell can't get into the Marion REC that could be a positive. May mean that he is not far enough right. Maybe he's a better Republican than some think he is. Sounds like he is now politically homeless! He can join the crowd.
LOTS OFTHE OBJECTION IS HIS DEMEANOR. HE IS A FORMER COP THAT BELIEVES IT IS HIS WAY OR THE HIWAY. HE WUD HAVE PUT LOTS OF CASH INTO THE ORGNIZATION.
paul is a fine man and would have made a great republican chairman. i don't understand what the rec was thinking by refusing to accept him and his wife. shameful.
State Rep. Dennis Baxley DID NOT MISS the Marion County Legislative Delegation Meeting at CFCC on Wednesday. Some sources (our own PH Blog, and the Tampa Buzz Blog) erroneously reported he did not attend. We removed an anonymous post from the blog that attempted to poke fun at a situation that didn’t exist. Unfortunately, both blogs discovered there are political types in Tallahassee with just too much time on their hands!
Also, we removed a post by a blogger whose comments are becoming about as useful as the “Spam” postings we remove on a daily basis. We will continue to remove any postings deemed abusive, harassing, threatening, proven to be inaccurate, contains a knowingly false attribution, off topic, spam or spam-like. We will never edit any posts to the blog, and we will exercise utmost discretion in deleting any.
Wow, blogmaster. So, NOW you will remove "postings deemed abusive, harassing, threatening, proven to be inaccurate, contains a knowingly false attribution"...? Shame you didn't remove many of the postings that were indeed "proven inaccuract" and "knowingly contained false attributions" during the local elections. So, how will bloggers prove to you that their postings are accurate or that the info they post is not false?
Good conservatives with good Christian values like Dennis Baxley and Randy Harris are and will continue to be the victims of people who like to spread false information and conduct vengeful personal attacks against them. It has happened on this blogger and in other ways. Randy was viciously attacked by people on this blogger and Dennis also. Fortunately, it has not hurt Dennis and in the long run will also not hurt Randy. Temporary setbacks to people who believe in their causes often make them even stronger. Count on that with Randy and count on Dennis to continue to be immune to the false claims and vengeance against him.
I couldn’t agree more with anonymous!
Some of the stuff said on the blog about Sue Mosely, Randy Harris, Ron Crawford, Denis Baxley and many other Republican candidates by the left (and liberal Republicans) was proven in the end to be way off base.
Unfortunately, political b...s... is hard to prove until it’s too late.
Right is Right. No, that’s not correct. Left is Right--Right is Wrong.
Wait a minute, maybe that’s the guideline for wearing a single earring and determining the wearer’s sexual orientation. Now I’m really confused.
has the local rec elected their officers yet?
So what if something is taken off of the blog. It’s their blog and they can do what ever they want. If they take something off that I put on and don’t think they should have, I’ll just stop posting things or looking at the blog. I have sent letters to the newspapers and they don’t always publish them. I recently posted something to the Star Banners Forum and someone removed that, I guess because they didn’t like what I said about Florida’s death penalty. All speech is not free.
So tell us who is the blogger that has caused problems for the blog? I think I probably know already.
Does anyone really care who it is? I sure don't.
The REC election is this Monday, for the person who asked.
I hear there may be some interesting changes in the officers that many have not anticipated--good changes for the Party.
REC OFFICERS
Elected last night were:
Randy Harris – Chairman
Pat Santospirito – Vice Chair
Joyce Romanski – Secretary
Pat Sasso – Treasurer
RANDY IS NOT GOING AWAY!
As a matter of fact, it looks like he has an officer group of some pretty reasonable and respected ladies supporting him.
Let the fun and games for the Democrats continue!
Oh No!! Could be worse than also having him as a County Commissioner. Too much time on his hands.
Hear Randy is still “influencing” what goes on at the BCC.
Charlie Stone picked as BEST County Commissioner by Ocala Magazine. Way to go Charlie!
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